Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

[gordonjblair]

Summary of points..



They say that there's no alternative site because Liverpool FC couldn't find one in 2001, despite one of the clients listed on the first page agreeing that Scotland Road was viable (WSP Engineers).



EFC need to move in for beginning of 2010/2011 season otherwise the Kirkby 'dream' is over.

If no more retail partners can be found then the stadium size will have a reduced capacity as there will not be enough enabling funds to build a 50,000 seater.

TK Maxx & Marks and Spencers have already agreed to move to Kirkby.

not strictly true, they said they've expressed a strong interest, but would definitely be put off if the development were smaller - it's 'Independent' validation of Tesco's tipping point, or critical mass assertion to discourage the Council trimming the development.

 

[gordonjblair]

Lou - I know that the above were not in consecutive sentences but it prompts the question as to whether the £78m includes fit out or is in addition to? If additional to, then anyone remember the cost of the fit out? (Sorry for being lazy but I know that you'll have the answer in your head.)

Apparently seperate..

disagree, total cost (including fit out) £130M
EFC Contribution £78M
Enabling Cross Subsidy £52M

fit out is included in the sums, it's not accounted for in the £6M increase in the event of a call-in.
The majority of this £6M would consist of Extension of time (EOT) costs - Project Management etc with an allowance for escalation due to inflation.. the fit out duration should not take any longer (the Planning Process being complete by then) so the fit-out works would only be liable for the escalation portion (usually about 4-5%p.a. providing the Chinese stop buying all the steel)

 

[Blue Lou]

I agree with your first post, I've amended original post

In addition to that it says:

If the retail park size is reduced, Everton's stadium can't be built with a 50,000 capacity as Everton FC need the retail enabling money:

The impact of new legislation or guidance on stadia design could further increase costs and reduce capacity.

Reading between the lines, it is a saying similar to "don't touch it or it will fall apart"

When you consider that Grosvenor are having problems finding shops for the city centre market, it underlines how difficult it will be for kirkby to attract stores.

With land value dropping (relating to sale of Bellefield and Goodison Park) and the credit crunch (relating to borrowing the money needed to pay for the stadium), the stadium doesn't look likely to go ahead unless the club agree to the equivalent of a shopacheck loan (high apr).

The stadium will be given a 10million grant from presumably NWDA
Halewood by comparison will be given 15million, by that I'd presume that the dept dealing with grants sees Kirkby as less important stature than Halewood.

 

[gordonjblair]

The other key issue around the 'enabling element' of the development is that the rents assumed are at the top end... 'premier fashion outlets'. Not sure how many of those will be snapping up space with the potential recession round the corner.

Would assume for the development to proceed, the parties involved would need some degree of confidence that the rates would be achievable.


On a side note, I wish the club had made this information available, although it has it's (glaring) problems, it's always more comforting to worry about actual, valid estimates, than scary stories.

 

[Blue Lou]

Following on from:

http://www.keioc.net/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=111&cntnt01returnid=15

Do you think that rebranding Everton as a Knowsley Club will be beneficial to the club long-term?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

All these Kirkby debates are always missing one thing.

An alternative.

 

[Blue Lou]

Danny.. the problem is the board are not looking/can not look for them.

 

[atrottel]

Danny.. the problem is the board are not looking/can not look for them.

Do you think David Moyes is stupid, or dishonest, or both?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Danny.. the problem is the board are not looking/can not look for them.

Ah, I See....

So the board cant be arsed? Is that it?

 

[MaccaBill]

All these Kirkby debates are always missing one thing.

An alternative.

:blink::huh:You must only look infrequently and/or selectively. Come on, wrack your memory for all the posts that you've read about the various alternatives over the past [keep it simple here] three months!

 

[modfather]

I just love the part where it says basically, " we go above the amount said, we are knackered ".

Cheers Bill.

2.6. A number of funding options are currently being pursued and will comprise a combination of:

 Long term bank debt
 Syndicated debt
 Private Equity Funding
 Securitisation of future income streams
 Securitisation of new stadium naming rights
 Realisation of existing assets

Absolutely laughable. Existing assets ? We have Goodison Park and players.

 

[gordonjblair]

All these Kirkby debates are always missing one thing.

An alternative.

Danny, the most viable, deliverable alternative has been investigated and touted ad-nauseum... a staged redevelopment of GP herself. Something Bill was quite keen to put his weight behind in the GFE days

It's not that the board can't be arsed, it's just far simpler and easier for them to let Tesco take the lead (they've had plenty of practice pushing through this kind of thing, after all) rather than worry about the logistics of working on the old lady.

The benefit of a staged redevelopment is that it can be, to a small extent, self funding. There would be minimal variance in nett cost to Kirkby, with considerable upsides

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not sure how I missed this thread first time around. My thoughts are that this is a storm in a tea cup.

To provide some comparison, and no doubt some bait for those that wish to damn the stadium as middling, the Arsenal stadium cost £430 million, with the club taking on around £260 million of debt to finance it.

However the club also gained numerous sources of income related to the development. For instance they sold the naming rights to Emirates for £100 million over 15 years. They also built houses on Highbury and a few other places. Plus of course club seats and exec boxes are often bought in advance so you have a substantial up front fee from those. As a final point of comparison, the Gunners revenue in the final season at Highbury, CL final and all, was £132 million. Their first season at the Emirates yielded £190 million. It's this boon to revenues that allowed the loans that financed the development to be just 14 years in duration.

Now I'm not going to suggest that we'll achieve anything like the leap in revenue that Arsenal achieved as we're a club in different circumstances, but hopefully it will help to put this £75 odd million figure into some kind of perspective.

 

[Blue Lou]

Master Wayne, I don't believe that it's a storm in a teacup, it's a very serious threat to the wellbeing and future support of our club.

How can relocating from a city with a population of 500,000 and putting all it's focuse into a town with aproximately a population of around 40,000 see a long-term increase in number of supporters?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Master Wayne, I don't believe that it's a storm in a teacup, it's a very serious threat to the wellbeing and future support of our club.

How can relocating from a city with a population of 500,000 and putting all it's focuse into a town with aproximately a population of around 40,000 see a long-term increase in number of supporters?

Its 3 f*****g miles away! (or maybe 4.... )

C'mon Lou, your arguments really are piss poor sometimes. Try and look at things from a neutral (or common sense) point of view instead of seeing everything in such a negative light.

Accessibility will mean the majority of fans will get to Kirkby stadium quicker than they would have done for Goodison.

I have walked to Goodison from Kirkby, its a 10 minute drive ffs.

Oh, and the population of Liverpool is closer to 400,000 than 500,000. And thats including the likes of Speke. Not that it matters but if your going to use facts, maybe an idea to make sure they are correct

And as for...

How can relocating from a city with a population of 500,000 and putting all it's focuse into a town with aproximately a population of around 40,000 see a long-term increase in number of supporters?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article2524393.ece

Arsenal’s move to their new, 60,000-seat stadium at Ashburton Grove has helped the club to emerge as one of Europe’s richest three clubs - and that explains why they are such valued targets for a takeover.

Arsenal’s results from their last season at Highbury showed a turnover of £137.2 million, placing them ninth in the list in Europe. A year on, and turnover has shot up by almost £74 million and profits are £51.2 million.

The move to the Emirates Stadium is the biggest reason for the change and the 60,000-seat stadium is generating mouthwatering revenues of £3.1million a game, more than double the amount achieved at Highbury.

More money=More success=Increased number of supporters.

I think that works out anyway, my maths never were that good.