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Steven Naismith though.

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davek said:
He's done ok.

What I'm saying here (and the point is being ignored - conveniently) is that we have now a situation where we have two star strikers. Martinez does not go with two as a rule. Therefore, one will play in behind or out wide. That is the fact of the matter. Who makes way in that event?
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To Martinez, I don't think being a "star" player matters, or at least I hope not. I want a manager with the bottle to play whoever is performing well, regardless of the hype around them. The fact that Naismith, Lukaku, and Eto'o are all very good and very different players gives Martinez many different tactical options, but unless there's a compelling reason to play Eto'o ahead of Naismith there's no reason that Naismith shouldn't start.
 
davek said:
Well. it's not by alphabetical order or goals scored.

It makes no sense. The compiler is a fool.
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He explains the methodology, 2nd goals are the most valuable, and both of Naismith's goals were the 2nd that we scored. It's a bit strange, I agree. I understand the intuition, that the 2nd goal is the one that's most likely to guarantee you points statistically, but after 2 games it doesn't really tell you anything.
 
NEC said:
If there has ever been a player that I've enjoyed seeing change the mindset of fans its Naismith. The lad is a top top pro.

The way he got involved at getting under Arsnal players skins and chatting to the ref was ace - a proper tasste of their own medicine. We have needed that for some time, Cahill was great at it. Baines has infuriated me with his "fairness" - not appealing for a pen, getting up quick to stop a player getting a yellow card and having the same player roll over when he touches them.

We have needed to be a little more "cynical" for a while, itsa not nice but the other teams do it to their advantage.
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Totally agree and 'like' this point. I think its noticeable how much we are playing the game that the other top teams play in terms of influencing the ref where there is cause to do so. Not feigning injury or diving but just making the most of situations with a tactical mind set. Never happened under Moyes - almost like he was above it. Funny how it almost seems to go hand in hand with better quality football.
 
toffeestillidie said:
He explains the methodology, 2nd goals are the most valuable, and both of Naismith's goals were the 2nd that we scored. It's a bit strange, I agree. I understand the intuition, that the 2nd goal is the one that's most likely to guarantee you points statistically, but after 2 games it doesn't really tell you anything.
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It's a ridiculous methodology. How is the second goal the most important if the first one doesn't go in?
 

domingo77 said:
Totally agree and 'like' this point. I think its noticeable how much we are playing the game that the other top teams play in terms of influencing the ref where there is cause to do so. Not feigning injury or diving but just making the most of situations with a tactical mind set. Never happened under Moyes - almost like he was above it. Funny how it almost seems to go hand in hand with better quality football.
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Making the refs think twice now about us being pushovers. You can see Naismith trying to get the ref to give a card out, I like it. How many times have we seen our players get walked adnd pennos refused. Arsenal were so irritated by the likes of McCarthy and Nais, it was good to see, I think Barry was hoping Wiulshire got a red.

Next up Jose and his boys...
 
toffeestillidie said:
To Martinez, I don't think being a "star" player matters, or at least I hope not. I want a manager with the bottle to play whoever is performing well, regardless of the hype around them. The fact that Naismith, Lukaku, and Eto'o are all very good and very different players gives Martinez many different tactical options, but unless there's a compelling reason to play Eto'o ahead of Naismith there's no reason that Naismith shouldn't start.
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TBH, and all prejudice aside, he really should start the next few games. It's only fair. If he does well then he should keep his place. I'm just trying to be as real about it as I can though. Martinez has already indicated Eto'o is practically picking himself when he said this morning that he's raring to go for Chelsea. Unless Lukaku is a non-starter with that toe, that's going to present some selection headache for him. A good one to have, of course. But it does underline Naismith's vulnerability, especially when Barkley gets back.
 
davek said:
TBH, and all prejudice aside, he really should start the next few games. It's only fair. If he does well then he should keep his place. I'm just trying to be as real about it as I can though. Martinez has already indicated Eto'o is practically picking himself when he said this morning that he's raring to go for Chelsea. Unless Lukaku is a non-starter with that toe, that's going to present some selection headache for him. A good one to have, of course. But it does underline Naismith's vulnerability, especially when Barkley gets back.
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if Nais keeps scoring every game I don't see how he could be dropped for anyone, be it Barkley Eto'o or 'other'.
 
I really hope he keeps up this current form and is our player of the season
because a> if he keeps this up he'll score a lovely 38 goals
and b> the disney-produced feel-good movie about how he taught the fans to love him will be a box-office smash
 

Who knows what goes on inside that majestic albino head of our Steven...

image.webp

image.webp
 
toffeestillidie said:
To Martinez, I don't think being a "star" player matters, or at least I hope not. I want a manager with the bottle to play whoever is performing well, regardless of the hype around them. The fact that Naismith, Lukaku, and Eto'o are all very good and very different players gives Martinez many different tactical options, but unless there's a compelling reason to play Eto'o ahead of Naismith there's no reason that Naismith shouldn't start.
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Just can't read those names, Eto'o, Lukaku and Naismith, in conjunction with my beloved blues, without going "what would I have thought a year ago if I was told we would have them on permanent contracts", I would be amazed Nais was still on our books too, I suppose
 
davek said:
TBH, and all prejudice aside, he really should start the next few games. It's only fair. If he does well then he should keep his place. I'm just trying to be as real about it as I can though. Martinez has already indicated Eto'o is practically picking himself when he said this morning that he's raring to go for Chelsea. Unless Lukaku is a non-starter with that toe, that's going to present some selection headache for him. A good one to have, of course. But it does underline Naismith's vulnerability, especially when Barkley gets back.
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But as you have pointed out, Martinez doesn't consider the bench as a negative, he loves changing his wingers towards the end of a game and has often done the same for the number 10 role Barkley/Osman/Naismith - the only reason he hasn't done it with the striker postion imo is that we haven't had any options.

Whilst Barkley is out I can easily see him rotating his starts for Lukaku and Eto'o in the striker position and switching them after 60mins and the same for behind the striker for Naismith, Osman and Eto'o. If Eto'o comes on as a sub as effectively as Aguero has done plus a few starts as well, I doubt he'll be unhappy.
 
LinekersLegs said:
But as you have pointed out, Martinez doesn't consider the bench as a negative, he loves changing his wingers towards the end of a game and has often done the same for the number 10 role Barkley/Osman/Naismith - the only reason he hasn't done it with the striker postion imo is that we haven't had any options.

Whilst Barkley is out I can easily see him rotating his starts for Lukaku and Eto'o in the striker position and switching them after 60mins and the same for behind the striker for Naismith, Osman and Eto'o. If Eto'o comes on as a sub as effectively as Aguero has done plus a few starts as well, I doubt he'll be unhappy.
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And this will possibly be one of the ways he plans to keep about 17 key players battle hardened and sharp for the full season with the extra matches. Played his subs a bit late in two games so far but you know what I mean. He definitely usually considers the bench as part of the main plan rather than hypothetical possibilities if things go wrong in the game.
 

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