Stonewall FC

[BlueLlama]

Stonewall started as kind of a safe haven for openly gay footballers. A chance for them to play the game without ahving a dozen other guys ripping on them with the jokes posted here. Whilst they might be funny here imagine if you were sat in a changing room with the rest of the team taking the piss out of you. What I hope now is that if a staright guy turned up and wanted to play for them they would let him play on merit.

 

[ricardobee]

Hey, whats the problem, they wanna play footie not bum you. It's a good thing

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

He's just pulled your pants down there Reidy, your little KKK y fronts. Down, around you ankles.

And he's gonna rape you. SOMEBODY CALL CRIMEWATCH.

well he's saying that the brits are exclusively for white artists, when there is no proof of that at all, whereas with the Mobo's the evidence is clear for all to see in the name.

I find myself defending immigrants to the country all the time, the vast majority are what we class as economic migrants, here to live a better life and willing to work hard for that, often harder than they would 'back home' as they want to be here more than there (just like I have and you have yourself, along with thousands of other brits), people have a pop at the poles all the time... they work hard, ok so a lot of young ones come here to pish it up with their mates as well and have a good time (just like a great many of us were doing in Holland, Italy, Greece, Germany). At the end of the day when anyone says stuff like 'they should all go home them foreigners' then they are including my daughter in that as she is by definition 'a foreigner.'

I also understand that some will be here as refugees or will have legged it from home without a pot to pish in, I understand that they may need a bit of help when they 1st get here as well, but I have great faith in human nature and reckon that they will be very grateful and willingly put back into the system once settled.

Society has moved on in leaps and bounds since we left school some 25 years ago, an example being how many mixed relationships/marriages there are these days in comparison to then, most people wouldn't bat an eyelid nowadays if their son/daughter brought home their new partner and they were of a different race. In fact it is other races/ religions that would forbid their daughter from marrying a white/ different faith person (although catlix do this a bit as well).

 

[BlackToffee]

well he's saying that the brits are exclusively for white artists, when there is no proof of that at all, whereas with the Mobo's the evidence is clear for all to see in the name.

Reidy, perhaps the humour of this thread is better re: See chico. Just to let you know that I never ever said that the Brits was exclusively for white Artists. You've said that, not me. What I am saying is that due to the nature of the Brits, the expectation and practise is that most winners will be white. No difference from the Asian music awards, or the Mobo's, the only difference is that the Brits (a name which conjures up a stereotypical white person) doesn't use the term white. My point is that it doesn't need to, as white people are the majority in this country, white don't need to continually refer to themselves as white.

I don't know how to put that over to you. But remember the joke about the Lone Ranger saying to Tonto "we're surrounded by Indians Tonto" to which Tonto replies "We kimosabi?" that's what I'm talking about if you understand what I mean.

 

[Muggins]

So, if it changed its name to "Urban Music Award" it would ease your white consciousness would it?

In the UK we live in a largely white society, despite what the Daily Mail may claim. You don't say "white pop", or "white rock" You simply say "pop" and "rock" because the underlying assumption is that it is played, performed and listened to largely by white people. The whole term "BRITS" emphases the underlying assumption that this is a "white" event.

I don't know where you've got this from, but I totally disagree.

You simply say "pop" and "rock" because the underlying assumption is that it is played, performed and listened to largely by white people.

I think that's an assumption in itself. I don't assume that at all. Look at this weeks charts. It's called 'Pop' and 'Rock' everywhere in the world.

The whole term "BRITS" emphases the underlying assumption that this is a "white" event.

Last time I checked Britain was very multi cultural. For me, any resident of this country is British and is perfectly entitled to collect a Brit award for musical or Tv contribution.

One thing to bare in mind in this topic. I only speak for myself. I can't vouch for anyone else.

 

[BlackToffee]

Originally Posted by BlackToffee
So, if it changed its name to "Urban Music Award" it would ease your white consciousness would it?

In the UK we live in a largely white society, despite what the Daily Mail may claim. You don't say "white pop", or "white rock" You simply say "pop" and "rock" because the underlying assumption is that it is played, performed and listened to largely by white people. The whole term "BRITS" emphases the underlying assumption that this is a "white" event

I don't know where you've got this from, but I totally disagree.

You simply say "pop" and "rock" because the underlying assumption is that it is played, performed and listened to largely by white people.

I think that's an assumption in itself. I don't assume that at all. Look at this weeks charts. It's called 'Pop' and 'Rock' everywhere in the world.

The whole term "BRITS" emphases the underlying assumption that this is a "white" event.

Last time I checked Britain was very multi cultural. For me, any resident of this country is British and is perfectly entitled to collect a Brit award for musical or Tv contribution.

One thing to bare in mind in this topic. I only speak for myself. I can't vouch for anyone else.

OK, you disagree with my analysis about pop music. What it the basis of your disagreement, then we can find some common ground to argue the issue. My point is that people who are in the majority don't go around qualifying who they are, they don't need to, they use euphemisms. When the term "Civilised World" is used, there is a whole level of assumptions about who is "civilised" who is not. But we all know we're not talking about African and Asian countries when the term is used though.

Yes, Britain is a multicultural society, but what are you trying to say, that this means we're all equal? Assuming that your household had predominatly white residents in it, if I came over for tea, your house might become "multi cultural" but I'd have no power to break any of your house rules, its still your house.

 

[Tubey]

OK, you disagree with my analysis about pop music. What it the basis of your disagreement, then we can find some common ground to argue the issue.

To name a few.

"Rock" and "Pop" are not racial-specific. Black artists are not purely R&B/Rap, and the Brits doesn't see it as such.

Given the best male artist at the Brits was one Dizzee Rascal in 2010, your point doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.

BRITS 2010:

:: British male solo artist – Dizzee Rascal

:: International male solo artist – Jay-Z

:: British breakthrough act -JLS

:: British single – JLS for Beat Again

 

[Muggins]

OK, you disagree with my analysis about pop music. What it the basis of your disagreement, then we can find some common ground to argue the issue. My point is that people who are in the majority don't go around qualifying who they are, they don't need to, they use euphemisms. When the term "Civilised World" is used, there is a whole level of assumptions about who is "civilised" who is not. But we all know we're not talking about African and Asian countries when the term is used though.

I get where you are coming from. You're talking about statements made historically, which cannot be disputed as not happening. ie the last bit highlighted in bold. I, however don't agree with this sort of thing being said by the media or by individuals. I know its far more in depth than just choosing to be civilised or not.

I agree that sweeping statements are and have been made in the past which backs up your point and opinions / arguements. I can't argue with that.

I suppose my arguement is power to the individual. I don't belong in a category. If we as humans have truly evolved both intellectually, and society wise, then why does there have to be any colour involved at all? Why Black or White? why not Blue....hahaha.

With regards to your last bit...

Yes, Britain is a multicultural society, but what are you trying to say, that this means we're all equal? Assuming that your household had predominatly white residents in it, if I came over for tea, your house might become "multi cultural" but I'd have no power to break any of your house rules, its still your house.

Whenever I am visiting another country, the thing at the forefront of my mind all the time, is being respectful of different cultures and people. But if someone came and stayed in my house, prodominately white or not, if you lived there with me, then you'd have a say and opinion on the house rules...It's just the way I feel...

 

[BlackToffee]

To name a few.

"Rock" and "Pop" are not racial-specific. Black artists are not purely R&B/Rap, and the Brits doesn't see it as such.

Given the best male artist at the Brits was one Dizzee Rascal in 2010, your point doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.

BRITS 2010:

:: British male solo artist – Dizzee Rascal

:: International male solo artist – Jay-Z

:: British breakthrough act -JLS

:: British single – JLS for Beat Again

..and the full list is; da daaaaa

British Breakthrough Act JLS
British Female Solo Artist Lily Allen
British Group Kasabian
British Male Solo Artist Dizzee Rascal
British Producer Paul Epworth
British Single JLS
BRITs Album of 30 Years (What's The Story) Morning Glory? Oasis
Critics' Choice Ellie Goulding
International Album The Fame - Lady Gaga
International Breakthrough Act Lady Gaga
International Female Solo Artist Lady Gaga
International Male Solo Artist Jay-Z
MasterCard British Album West Ryder Pauper Lunatic Asylum Florence + The Machine
Outstanding Contribution Award Robbie Williams
The BRITs Hits 30 Wannabe/Who Do You Think You Are Spice Girls

Just for the record and in case I'm once again accused of being Kunte Kinte, I'm not saying that the BRITS is all white, despite the misrepresentation above of my view above. I am simply saying that you'd expect most winners to be white, in the same way that you'd expect that most winners of t the MOBO's would be Black. Also, not shown, the "urban" category from previous years has been removed.

Is that really so hard for some to understand?

 

[Muggins]

Just for the record and in case I'm once again accused of being Kunte Kinte, I'm not saying that the BRITS is all white, despite the misrepresentation above of my view above. I am simply saying that you'd expect most winners to be white, in the same way that you'd expect that most winners of t the MOBO's would be Black. Also, not shown, the "urban" category from previous years has been removed.

Is that really so hard for some to understand?

See thats what I don't get. I understand what your saying, but don't agree.

Are you saying this is the stereo-type?? I could agree with that, but i don't carry this stereo-type at all personally, which moves me back to what I said earlier about speaking for myself.

On another note, I've just read the rules and I think we are all breaking them - officially.

But on a positive note, it's nice to have a discussion about different peoples views, even more so when you share a love for Everton.

 

[BlackToffee]

oh, and if you want to spot the single "black" artist from the 2009 brits winners list here it is;

British Breakthrough Act Duffy
British Female Solo Artist Duffy
British Group Elbow
British Live Act Iron Maiden
British Male Solo Artist Paul Weller
British Single Girls Aloud
Critic's Choice Award Florence + The Machine
International Album Kings Of Leon
International Female Solo Artist Katy Perry
International Group Kings Of Leon
International Male Solo Artist Kanye West
MasterCard British Album Duffy
Outstanding Contribution Pet Shop Boys

I hope that my point is now firmly made in this area. I'm not a supporter of the MOBO's, not because as Reidy says, it has the affront to include "black" in its title, rather than some stupid euphamism like "Urban" - its because from my personal view if Leona Lewis can win then MOBO's as a concept is none existent as she sings purely "pop" and you might as well call the MOBO's little Brits.

 

[BlackToffee]

See thats what I don't get. I understand what your saying, but don't agree.

Are you saying this is the stereo-type?? I could agree with that, but i don't carry this stereo-type at all personally, which moves me back to what I said earlier about speaking for myself.

On another note, I've just read the rules and I think we are all breaking them - officially.

But on a positive note, it's nice to have a discussion about different peoples views, even more so when you share a love for Everton.

Yes, we are breaking the rules big time, but we're not at each others throats and as I've said many a time, there are too many intelligent people on this forum not to have a sensible discussion on difficult issues. As I've said before, the rules are badly worded and should follow general practise, that is, you can have sensitive discussions (which this forum has had many despite the rules), but be aware that if it looks like getting out of hand, it will be closed down by the mods.

 

[Tubey]

oh, and if you want to spot the single "black" artist from the 2009 brits winners list here it is;

British Breakthrough Act Duffy
British Female Solo Artist Duffy
British Group Elbow
British Live Act Iron Maiden
British Male Solo Artist Paul Weller
British Single Girls Aloud
Critic's Choice Award Florence + The Machine
International Album Kings Of Leon
International Female Solo Artist Katy Perry
International Group Kings Of Leon
International Male Solo Artist Kanye West
MasterCard British Album Duffy
Outstanding Contribution Pet Shop Boys

I hope that my point is now firmly made in this area. I'm not a supporter of the MOBO's, not because as Reidy says, it has the affront to include "black" in its title, rather than some stupid euphamism like "Urban" - its because from my personal view if Leona Lewis can win then MOBO's as a concept is none existent as she sings purely "pop" and you might as well call the MOBO's little Brits.

Didn't it ever cross your mind that in that year the artists that happened to be black were not good enough to win the award? For example, I can't find an argument for denying an award to Iron Maiden, Florence and The Machine and Kings of Leon, and most of the rest are justified too.

So because a black artist wasn't deemed good enough that year to beat out a white artist, that makes the Brits are "white" event?

And I didn't misrepresent you at all - you said that the Brits are, and I quote:

You don't say "white pop", or "white rock" You simply say "pop" and "rock" because the underlying assumption is that it is played, performed and listened to largely by white people. The whole term "BRITS" emphases the underlying assumption that this is a "white" event.

You are completely and utterly wrong I'm afraid, especially on the bold bit.

On another note, I've just read the rules and I think we are all breaking them - officially.

Well, maybe. But as long as it doesn't degenerate into racism (which this clearly hasn't), I think this discussion is in good faith.

Indeed, politicians should be talking about the subject too, so we don't have idiots like the BNP gaining influence.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

I if you lived there with me, then you'd have a say and opinion on the house rules...It's just the way I feel...

MRS. B.O.G. SAYS CAN SHE MOVE IN.

 

[BlackToffee]

Didn't it ever cross your mind that in that year the artists that happened to be black were not good enough to win the award? For example, I can't find an argument for denying an award to Iron Maiden, Florence and The Machine and Kings of Leon, and most of the rest are justified too.

So because a black artist wasn't deemed good enough that year to beat out a white artist, that makes the Brits are "white" event?

And I didn't misrepresent you at all - you said that the Brits are, and I quote:

You don't say "white pop", or "white rock" You simply say "pop" and "rock" because the underlying assumption is that it is played, performed and listened to largely by white people. The whole term "BRITS" emphases the underlying assumption that this is a "white" event.


You are completely and utterly wrong I'm afraid, especially on the bold bit.

Well, maybe. But as long as it doesn't degenerate into racism (which this clearly hasn't), I think this discussion is in good faith.

Indeed, politicians should be talking about the subject too, so we don't have idiots like the BNP gaining influence.

I;m not arguing the validity of any winners. That's a totally different debate and many other "white" nominees may have been better winners. I'm simply saying that most of the winners will normally be white. A fact that can't be denied, however you try and spin it.

I concede the point about the event and my assumptions and concur about debating an issue without it degenerating into a slanging match.