Teachers' Strike!

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Quite, as the OECD report earlier this month showed

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/08/england-young-people-league-table-basic-skills-oecd

But yeah, lets carry on as we were.

So, given those figures, their effectiveness is poor & their producing below average results when compared to their peers in other countries then?

Sounds like a pay rise & a better pension is the order of the day then

 

[orly]

Quite, as the OECD report earlier this month showed

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/08/england-young-people-league-table-basic-skills-oecd





But yeah, lets carry on as we were.

Ah right, next people will start telling us that we should have education systems like the South Koreans or the Chinese

Spoiler Alert: We'd have to be absolutely mental.

 

[Tubey]

So, given those figures, their effectiveness is poor & their producing below average results when compared to their peers in other countries then?

Sounds like a pay rise & a better pension is the order of the day then

Actually, it's the methodology that is poor in Britain, not the implementation. We adopted a very late implementation of synthetic phonics which still isn't full flow now, meaning literacy suffered badly for generations. The decline in mathematics and science is because of targets that encourage increased focus on the "easier" humanities-based subjects, meaning just over 1 in 10 choose to study it post-16, and has been the case since the early 90s at best.

But no, blame teachers. It's easy that way.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So, given those figures, their effectiveness is poor & their producing below average results when compared to their peers in other countries then?

Sounds like a pay rise & a better pension is the order of the day then

Kinda. I linked to this research in another thread but it applies here too I guess.

http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/value_added.pdf

It basically shows that in any one school, the quality of teachers spans 80% of the total variation in teacher quality. What's more, if you replace a teacher at the bottom of the scale with one of merely average ability, all pupils in that class receive a jump in career earnings of over $1 million.

Yet how many teachers (and their unions) would be happy to accept performance related pay that encouraged those high performers and weeded out the duffers?

Ah right, next people will start telling us that we should have education systems like the South Koreans or the Chinese

Spoiler Alert: We'd have to be absolutely mental.

I believe South Korean schools normally score incredibly highly. Them and the likes of Finland are usually held up as role models.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Actually, it's the methodology that is poor in Britain, not the implementation. We adopted a very late implementation of synthetic phonics which still isn't full flow now, meaning literacy suffered badly for generations. The decline in mathematics and science is because of targets that encourage increased focus on the "easier" humanities-based subjects, meaning just over 1 in 10 choose to study it post-16, and has been the case since the early 90s at best.

But no, blame teachers. It's easy that way.

See here http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/value_added.pdf

The variance between a good teacher and a poor one are enormous.

 

[Allezfan]

See here http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/value_added.pdf

The variance between a good teacher and a poor one are enormous.

The american system isn't the british system though is it?

That's a bit apples and oranges.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

No way are they striking cos of GCSE changes btw.


Possibly striking cos they may have an increased workload due to the changes but there's no way on this earth that its anything to do with the level of education that the kids will receive.


Tell you what, the rest of us should inform schools that for 2 days (a Friday then Monday) that we wont be sending our kids into school as a protest against 'holidays in term time' being outlawed, the teachers can forgo the pay for those 2 days as they'll have no kids to teach, and in the long run it'll be the majority that benefit from it in the form of being able to afford to go away on holiday so by taking 2 days unpaid theyll be showing their support.

 

[Tubey]

See here http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/value_added.pdf

The variance between a good teacher and a poor one are enormous.

The implementation of correct teaching practice is considerably more enormous. That's one American research paper; I could give you a full reference list of 60+ journals, books and papers detailing the effect of synthetic phonics and the failure of the system to cater properly for educational development.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The american system isn't the british system though is it?

That's a bit apples and oranges.

Well, you could say the same about the Finnish system or the Korean system, but both have been looked at for our own.

Or closer to home, you could say Germany or Spain (or France before them) are not England, yet we're looking to both to improve our own footballers.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The implementation of correct teaching practice is considerably more enormous. That's one American research paper; I could give you a full reference list of 60+ journals, books and papers detailing the effect of synthetic phonics and the failure of the system to cater properly for educational development.

*shrug* you can ignore it if you want.

 

[Mrk]

 

[Allezfan]

Well, you could say the same about the Finnish system or the Korean system, but both have been looked at for our own.

Or closer to home, you could say Germany or Spain (or France before them) are not England, yet we're looking to both to improve our own footballers.

There's a difference between looking at how other systems do and using them as guides and assuming that the same factors have equal improtance in two different systems that use those factors differently.

To use your metaphor, it's one thing to compare our ball retention to the spanish it's another to use statistics of how often the spanish footballers lose the ball and assume the same applies to english footballers.

 

[orly]

I believe South Korean schools normally score incredibly highly. Them and the likes of Finland are usually held up as role models.

Oh I've no doubt they do.
For example, they produce excellent English students - or should I say, excellent at passing their exams. They will then be employed as English teachers their whole lives - while barely being able to speak or understand a simple conversation.

Their staff rooms will be full of extremely miserable teachers, who are plagued by the need for results without getting to actually teach. Bitter, sad individuals who dream of teaching abroad.

Biggest killer of 18-30 year old Koreans? Suicide.

So you have absolutely no experience of the Asian school system, but you think we should change ours to be more like them? Ok.

 

[Del]

Oh I've no doubt they do.
For example, they produce excellent English students - or should I say, excellent at passing their exams. They will then be employed as English teachers their whole lives - while barely being able to speak or understand a simple conversation.

Their staff rooms will be full of extremely miserable teachers, who are plagued by the need for results without getting to actually teach. Bitter, sad individuals who dream of teaching abroad.

Biggest killer of 18-30 year old Koreans? Suicide.

So you have absolutely no experience of the Asian school system, but you think we should change ours to be more like them? Ok.

Have you lived there mate?

 

[Housequake]

This whole episode just reminds me of that Peter Kay sketch.

"We had to load the dishwashers ourselves...BY HAND!"