The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Bruce Wayne]

"Britain's adoption of Sweden's "free school" model has been called into question after one of Sweden's largest private sector school operators announced it would shut down, leaving hundreds of students stranded.

JB Education, whose schools educate around 10,000 Swedish pupils, said on Thursday that it would sell 19 of its high schools and close down the remaining four.

The decision, which follows four school closures announced by the company in February, came as the Danish private equity group Axcel, which bought the chain in 2008, decided it could no longer continue to cover the company's losses.

"I'm devastated that the company I've managed for a short time won't survive," said JB Education's chief executive, Anders Hultin. "It's extremely regrettable that it will affect the students."

I appreciate this isn't what you want to hear. But most times private companies aren't the best to provide and deliver public services.

Since 1979 the increased privatisation of the health service has seen a proliferation of top down with hundreds of thousands of managers and those working under them getting massive increases in salaries. The proportion of salaries going to managers has increased alongside the increased privatisation of the health service when compared to other salaries. I would wager.

So by your logic we should shut down the NHS because of Staffordshire? Things are seldom as black and white as you make out. State = good, private = bad.

 

[hullefc]

The NHS will remain free at the point of access for the considerable future, whoever wins the election.

It's political suicide to change that and no party would do it.

When public services are further opened to private companies as is the central plank of TTIP it is up to the company that runs a service what they will do. There are some doctors and nurses calling for a £10 charge to see a doctor. When a company takes over a GPs surgery it is up to them how they go about their business. They will not be interested in the political fallout just money. When, there is a slight possibility that TTIP will not happen, it becomes into force they are free to charge and politicians wont have a say, unless they further subsidise and pay for that partiular service.

 

[red1]

The NHS will remain free at the point of access for the considerable future, whoever wins the election.

It's political suicide to change that and no party would do it.

Trust me, it seems impossible....until it actually happens and then you will be striking a different tone altogether. It just needs the right way of selling it. There is a reason why Labour went into Iraq despite mass opposition and still won re-election. Nothing is political suicide if it's packaged in the right way at the right time.

 

[red1]

When public services are further opened to private companies as is the central plank of TTIP it is up to the company that runs a service what they will do. There are some doctors and nurses calling for a £10 charge to see a doctor. When a company takes over a GPs surgery it is up to them how they go about their business. They will not be interested in the political fallout just money. When, there is a slight possibility that TTIP will not happen, it becomes into force they are free to charge and politicians wont have a say, unless they further subsidise and pay for that partiular service.

I actually think TTIP is a very clever backdoor way to privatise the NHS, it's a terrible deal which basically means that Britain won't have as much sovereignty as before which is why in all the polls it's across the board whether left wingers or right wingers that it's a terrible deal for Britain, it's not even a left vs right issue. TTIP damages British sovereignty that's a fact. I do think that the NHS will eventually be privatised though, you can see the mood of the people changing on programs like BBC Question Time etc. there seems to be more acceptance to the idea that it's "difficult" to keep funding the NHS, that's it's a drag on the budget etc. I think people are slowly buying into the idea that eliminating the NHS is the way forward. I could be wrong but that's what it seems like to me.

 

[The Cowboy]

Seems like you have an agenda there.

During the Labour boom years and the expanding economy, which you will have benefited from, did you put your hand up and shout stop?

Cameron said 'we are all in this together'. Not true, he is a bare faced hypocrite. He knew one section of the population would pay and another section of the population wouldn't. He made choices. Sanction illegally 850 000 people claiming money and he knew that there would be an increase in people needing help from charities. How did he know this? Because he studied PPE and there would have been modules he 'studied' that would have shown the relationship between cuts in welfare and increased destitution.

I might have an anti-Labour agenda, you could probably say that. But I certainly don't have a pro-Tory one.

I find your second line quite bizarre. But I would certainly say that part of that expanding economy came from unsustainable mortgages and bank loans (offered by poor regulated banks) and accepted by punters who probably knew they couldn't afford the repayments if they lost their job.

Expanding economy is great so long as it is sustainable and balanced. What was it that Gordon Brown said? 'We want an end to boom and bust'? He certainly put an end to one of these extremes.

 

[hullefc]

So by your logic we should shut down the NHS because of Staffordshire? Things are seldom as black and white as you make out. State = good, private = bad.

Doesn't even make sense. Those that provide education under the banner of 'free schools' rely on income from the state. In Britain they have no start up charge whereby they have to borrow money on the open market. They get the money from the state to convert buildings and/or take over existent education establishments. The privatisation programme of health, education, social services etc. has been the biggest con perpetrated by successive government.

They are providers and without state money wouldn't survive. They couldn't survive without the public purse. There are whole swathes of services provided by 'private companies' in fact more like public companies, with shareholders more than often politicians or politicians friends, putting pressure on the government to give them money to just do what was done. More than often with worse results.

What has state = good, private = bad got to do with it. I work for a private health care company and they are crap my mate works for the NHS doing the same job he gets more wages and better holidays and conditions.

 

[hullefc]

I might have an anti-Labour agenda, you could probably say that. But I certainly don't have a pro-Tory one.

I find your second line quite bizarre. But I would certainly say that part of that expanding economy came from unsustainable mortgages and bank loans (offered by poor regulated banks) and accepted by punters who probably knew they couldn't afford the repayments if they lost their job.

Expanding economy is great so long as it is sustainable and balanced. What was it that Gordon Brown said? 'We want an end to boom and bust'? He certainly put an end to one of these extremes.

Any mortgage is unsustainable if someone had a crystal ball and knew they would loose their job. People take out mortgages, have bank loan, run up credit card bills because they think they can afford them. Anyone that has debt is as much to 'blame' in creating an unsustainable boom as the next person. If you have a mortgage, bank loan and/or credit card bill then you would have been part of the problem like we all were. You are borrowing something that you want. You could just save up and buy a house, car or TV etc rather than getting credit. But that is not how Britain works.

It is sanctimonious tosh to suggest that 'punters know they couldn't afford the repayments'.

The Blair Brown government borrowed unprecedented amounts of money to create a boom. Backed by all and sundry including the Tories. Who wanted even more deregulation of the banks to create even more credit i.e unsustainable debt. They were banging their fists and waving their papers in the den of iniquity claiming that Labour were hindering the UK's financial industry by not deregulating more and thereby extending unsustainable debt to more people.

The Tories blamed the Labour government for the 2008 slump. The Labourites said it was outside (external) things beyond their control. Rubbish shout Dave and the rest of the Tories it is you (internal)

Dave is saying Britain will suffer an economic downturn because Europe (external) is not growing. The Labourites are saying rubbish it is you (internal). But Dave is saying external factors something he said was not the case in 2008.

What a shambolic imbecile Dave really is. He should have stuck to smashing up restaurants with the rest of his mates. Lions led by donkeys spring to mind.

 

[The Esk]

@red1 and @hullefc makes some excellent points about the dangers of TTIP. TTIP's impact will be huge yet very few know of it and almost no politicians are prepared to debate it.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is a series of trade negotiations being carried out mostly in secret between the EU and US. As a bi-lateral trade agreement, TTIP is about reducing the regulatory barriers to trade for big business, things like food safety law, environmental legislation, banking regulations and the sovereign powers of individual nations.

With regards to the health service US companies will be able to bid for tenders in the NHS and in the event of not being allowed to bid or for example a Government creating legislation stopping them from bidding they will have the right to sue the Government for loss of profits.

The thought of US healthcare companies operating with impunity within the NHS is an horrific thought and should be resisted in the strongest manner possible.

 

[The Cowboy]

Any mortgage is unsustainable if someone had a crystal ball and knew they would loose their job. People take out mortgages, have bank loan, run up credit card bills because they think they can afford them. Anyone that has debt is as much to 'blame' in creating an unsustainable boom as the next person. If you have a mortgage, bank loan and/or credit card bill then you would have been part of the problem like we all were. You are borrowing something that you want. You could just save up and buy a house, car or TV etc rather than getting credit. But that is not how Britain works.

It is sanctimonious tosh to suggest that 'punters know they couldn't afford the repayments'.

The Blair Brown government borrowed unprecedented amounts of money to create a boom. Backed by all and sundry including the Tories. Who wanted even more deregulation of the banks to create even more credit i.e unsustainable debt. They were banging their fists and waving their papers in the den of iniquity claiming that Labour were hindering the UK's financial industry by not deregulating more and thereby extending unsustainable debt to more people.

The Tories blamed the Labour government for the 2008 slump. The Labourites said it was outside (external) things beyond their control. Rubbish shout Dave and the rest of the Tories it is you (internal)

Dave is saying Britain will suffer an economic downturn because Europe (external) is not growing. The Labourites are saying rubbish it is you (internal). But Dave is saying external factors something he said was not the case in 2008.

What a shambolic imbecile Dave really is. He should have stuck to smashing up restaurants with the rest of his mates. Lions led by donkeys spring to mind.

People were taking out 100% mortgages left right and centre, and accepting credit cards with limits well above what they needed or could afford.

My wife and I bought a property well below our maximum repayment limit and provided 10% deposit on a repayment mortgage. I substantially overpay on a credit card I've held for a year and will clear within 6 months.

Having debt is not a problem. Taking on way more debt than you can service is the problem.

 

[hullefc]

I actually think TTIP is a very clever backdoor way to privatise the NHS, it's a terrible deal which basically means that Britain won't have as much sovereignty as before which is why in all the polls it's across the board whether left wingers or right wingers that it's a terrible deal for Britain, it's not even a left vs right issue. TTIP damages British sovereignty that's a fact. I do think that the NHS will eventually be privatised though, you can see the mood of the people changing on programs like BBC Question Time etc. there seems to be more acceptance to the idea that it's "difficult" to keep funding the NHS, that's it's a drag on the budget etc. I think people are slowly buying into the idea that eliminating the NHS is the way forward. I could be wrong but that's what it seems like to me.

As the discussion about TTIP get more coverage there will be stories, mostly justifiably, about the 'bad' treatment some people get from the NHS. And those with vested interests will pipe up and shout loudly, 'the NHS is crap', public = bad, private = good'. Rather than investigate and act when there is something wrong with the delivery of health care. They want to let the baby out with the bath water because they have something to gain. The Tories have ideologically always detested the 'socialistic' NHS

Osbourne has been banging the drum for the last few years to turn the state back to pre 1948 levels. That is no NHS. Pay up front for treatment. If you can't afford it then no operations.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

@red1 and @hullefc makes some excellent points about the dangers of TTIP. TTIP's impact will be huge yet very few know of it and almost no politicians are prepared to debate it.

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is a series of trade negotiations being carried out mostly in secret between the EU and US. As a bi-lateral trade agreement, TTIP is about reducing the regulatory barriers to trade for big business, things like food safety law, environmental legislation, banking regulations and the sovereign powers of individual nations.

With regards to the health service US companies will be able to bid for tenders in the NHS and in the event of not being allowed to bid or for example a Government creating legislation stopping them from bidding they will have the right to sue the Government for loss of profits.

The thought of US healthcare companies operating with impunity within the NHS is an horrific thought and should be resisted in the strongest manner possible.

Hang on a minute here, the legislation says that no company should be barred from bidding for an open tender for services. Surely that's a good thing? The NHS can choose whoever they like. The legislation doesn't say that the NHS has to choose the American supplier or they'll be sued, it just says that they can't discriminate against someone from tendering.

You buying a service from a supplier hardly gives them impunity to act how they like, does it?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

As the discussion about TTIP get more coverage there will be stories, mostly justifiably, about the 'bad' treatment some people get from the NHS. And those with vested interests will pipe up and shout loudly, 'the NHS is crap', public = bad, private = good'. Rather than investigate and act when there is something wrong with the delivery of health care. They want to let the baby out with the bath water because they have something to gain. The Tories have ideologically always detested the 'socialistic' NHS

You're doing exactly that but the other way

 

[hullefc]

People were taking out 100% mortgages left right and centre, and accepting credit cards with limits well above what they needed or could afford.

My wife and I bought a property well below our maximum repayment limit and provided 10% deposit on a repayment mortgage. I substantially overpay on a credit card I've held for a year and will clear within 6 months.

Having debt is not a problem. Taking on way more debt than you can service is the problem.

So you have taken out more than you should have. If you both lost your job or your business went bust you would be knackered. You took the risk that you could afford it. Like millions of others during the early 1980s. Encouraged to borrow, buy a car, move house, buy furniture and other household goods. No one said stop wait a minute this is unsustainable. They did after 2008 to sound like smartarses. And at the front of the queue were the Tories pontificating how it was all Labour's fault and not the worldwide financial meltdown.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So you have taken out more than you should have. If you both lost your job or your business went bust you would be knackered. You took the risk that you could afford it. Like millions of others during the early 1980s. Encouraged to borrow, buy a car, move house, buy furniture and other household goods. No one said stop wait a minute this is unsustainable. They did after 2008 to sound like smartarses. And at the front of the queue were the Tories pontificating how it was all Labour's fault and not the worldwide financial meltdown.

State spending is unsustainable. Over the past 25 years, the books have been balanced just three times. Blaming one another is hardly going to help matters.

 

[The Cowboy]

So you have taken out more than you should have. If you both lost your job or your business went bust you would be knackered. You took the risk that you could afford it. Like millions of others during the early 1980s. Encouraged to borrow, buy a car, move house, buy furniture and other household goods. No one said stop wait a minute this is unsustainable. They did after 2008 to sound like smartarses. And at the front of the queue were the Tories pontificating how it was all Labour's fault and not the worldwide financial meltdown.

Well you don't know me, but no, I wouldn't be knackered. And I didn't take out more than I should have.

Question is: why should anyone have to say 'wait, this is unsustainable'? People should know their limits. It's pretty rare to just have your job whipped away from you without warning. If I'd thought my job was at risk I would've postpone buying a house until I was in a more secure position.

No-one had to accept the mortgages and loans on offer.