The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[piddlywiddly]

So everyone is to blame if they have a mortgage and/or HP on goods people got and/or paying with credit cards/store cards to get goods.

How on earth have you come to that conclusion from what i have written?

If you have a house worth 100k, do you think it's the same if one person takes out a 70K mortgage and has a 30K deposit compared to someone who takes out a 100% or 95% mortgage because they can't afford more of a deposit? A mortgage where if interest rates go up the monthly payment goes up, possibly to a point where the buyer can't afford it?

 

[hullefc]

How on earth have you come to that conclusion from what i have written?

If you have a house worth 100k, do you think it's the same if one person takes out a 70K mortgage and has a 30K deposit compared to someone who takes out a 100% or 95% mortgage because they can't afford more of a deposit? A mortgage where if interest rates go up the monthly payment goes up, possibly to a point where the buyer can't afford it?

As soon as you take out a mortgage i.e borrow money because you cannot buy it with cash, then you have bought something you 'cannot 'afford''. To quote your good self 'stupid and greedy consumers'. Anyone who borrows can be classed as 'stupid and greedy'. If one wants to take the moral high ground with borrowing, whether it be blaming the government or individuals, then everyone who does not buy with cash is 'stupid and greedy' and should wait to purchase something with cash i.e save up and buy it.

 

[hullefc]

Bruce it is a fallacy that Labour spent too much prior to the crash. The figures do not show this.

At a time of record investment in the NHS and education (predominantly catching up on the lack of spending under Thatcher/Major) public sector debt as a % of GDP fell from 40.4% in 1997/8 to 36.4% in 2007/8.

A significant portion of the 'record investment' in the NHS and education came with strings attached through PFI.

Debt[edit]
The debt created by PFI has a significant impact on the finances of public bodies.[57] As of October 2007 the total capital value of PFI contracts signed throughout the UK was £68bn.[17] However, this figure pales into insignificance compared with the commitment of central and local government to pay a further £267bn[26] over the lifetime of these contracts. To give regional examples, the £5.2bn of PFI investment in Scotland up to 2007 has created a public sector cash liability of £22.3bn[57] and the investment of just £618m via PFI in Wales up to 2007 has created a public sector cash liability of £3.3bn.[58] However, these debts are small compared to other public-sector liabilities.[59]

Annual payments to the private owners of the PFI schemes are due to peak at £10bn in 2017[60] and are already stretching constricted public sector budgets. Many NHS Trustsare now experiencing serious financial difficulties and, if the level of government spending falls, may become insolvent. In some cases Trusts are having to 'rationalise' spending by closing wards and laying off staff, but they are not allowed to default on their PFI payments: "In September 1997 the government declared that these payments would be legally guaranteed: beds, doctors, nurses and managers could be sacrificed, but not the annual donation to the Fat Cats Protection League".[8] Should certain Trusts fail because they cannot meet their PFI payments, this will provide further opportunities for privatisation if the government brings in private healthcare corporations to run the hospitals instead.

 

[daylightrobber]

This sort of comment does frustrate me. The banks allowed people to borrow sums of money they couldn't really afford with no protection if the markets shifted. Poorly advised consumers saw the rich gorging themselves and weren't managed by financial managers to not do the same. Tempted by the cheap money with possibly no consideration for changes in markets and what that might do to them, they gave into those temptations to purchase a new house, tv, car, holiday etc, all was good. It was actually THIS that caused the economic crisis.

Labour were not directly responsible for a worldwide crash yet i don't believe any political party would have done much differently.

I almost missed this. I hope you don't mind but I've fixed some of it for you.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sure, but the flip side is that the real cost of borrowing is at the lowest levels imaginable so there is little incentive for Governments to address the issue.

The Tories for all their rhetoric on reducing debt and for all their austerity measures (which seem to be politically led rather than economically necessary) also know that borrowing at these extra-ordinarily low interest rates represent good value longer term. If the interest rate cycle was to return to some form of normality then we could see the cost of future borrowings increase 2 or 3 times.

The fact is that there is little real difference in either party's total spending plans. The difference is where future Government spending priorities lie.

That's the principle reason for voting Labour in my opinion, their spending priorities are more beneficial to those in need, which for me is the most important aspect of any Government's policy.

Well yes, I don't think any government has any sense of financial sanity about them. If we ran our businesses that way the banks would run us out of town. I've no doubt that people generally much prefer receiving things than having them taken away from them. 'Twas ever thus.

“The True Measure of Any Society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members” – Ghandi

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first" - Thatcher

Says it all really.

Yes, that's right, selectively quote the woman. "It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour"

In other words, we should look to ourselves and each other to help one another rather than looking to a faceless state to solve all of our problems.

It's honest. There isn't a person alive today I suspect that doesn't put themselves before other people. Even the most altruistic of people won't give up the roof over their head and the food on their plate (ie sacrifice their own basic needs) to give them to someone else.

A rainy day it was a worldwide hurricane - Tory dogma its a joke if they had been in government it would have been the same our banks would have had to be saved, as for the debt under the Tories it has risen despite all the cutbacks, and stagnant economy which may head to minus inflation - the growth was 4 percent in 2010 it has dropped to around 2 percent 5 years of meddling productivity at an all time low, and exports low in a EU that's on the floor yes we are doing better than the EU countries , but they are in a meltdown
,

If you read back then I never mentioned the Tories, and I don't suppose they would have done anything differently. As the chart I quoted clearly demonstrates, the governments of the past 30 years or so have very rarely balanced the books, let alone ran a surplus. It's much more common to spend money they don't have than it is to think about tomorrow.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I almost missed this. I hope you don't mind but I've fixed some of it for you.

Nice way of absolving any of us of personal responsibility for our own actions there

 

[Seanjd]

I almost missed this. I hope you don't mind but I've fixed some of it for you.

So you're telling me Gordon Brown wasn't in the US selling sub-prime mortgages?!

 

[roydo]

We have local council elections down here on the same day I have just noticed.

Not very interesting though.

 

[Seanjd]

I've got a question; the previous Labour government are often blamed for not regulating the banks in the run up to the financial crash, seemingly because we can't trust banks to do a decent job without being regulated (as we found out).

If banks cannot be trusted to operate properly without being regulated, why would anybody be against central banking through government?

 

[The Mighty Quint]

Labour looking better in the polls now, out of the 6 main ones they are ahead in 4, with a % lead ranging from 2 to 6, Tories ahead on 2 by 1 or 2 %.

Poll of Polls has Labour 2% ahead.

 

[daylightrobber]

Nice way of absolving any of us of personal responsibility for our own actions there

I see it like this - When one person goes overdrawn and gets into financial difficulty, it is fair to say that the individual needs to take some responsibility. When it is happening on such a massive scale the bank manager needs to be sacked.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I see it like this - When one person goes overdrawn and gets into financial difficulty, it is fair to say that the individual needs to take some responsibility. When it is happening on such a massive scale the bank manager needs to be sacked.

Of course, the banks have to take their share too, but so do each of the people that borrowed more than they should have. The thing is, most of the economic policy from around the world since the crash has seemed to revolve around encouraging business and consumers to borrow (and spend) to boost 'growth'.

You have to ask yourself, have any lessons really been learned?

 

[Seanjd]

Clegg really is a populist muppet isn't he. "Labour giving up borrowing money is like an alcoholic giving up vodka".

 

[The Mighty Quint]

“The True Measure of Any Society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members” – Ghandi

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first" - Thatcher

Says it all really.

Daniel Alexander said last week in one the papers, when they were meeting with Cameron and Osbourne to oppose the tax cut for the millionaires, Osborne I think it was turned round and said "You look after the workers, we'll look after the Bosses".

 

[daylightrobber]

Of course, the banks have to take their share too, but so do each of the people that borrowed more than they should have. The thing is, most of the economic policy from around the world since the crash has seemed to revolve around encouraging business and consumers to borrow (and spend) to boost 'growth'.

You have to ask yourself, have any lessons really been learned?

As long as there is a culture of greed and desire, probably not.

BTW. The bank managers should have said no.