The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Bruce Wayne]

Dickens is good fun, but what does he have to do with the election? Is a government that spends £700bn a year really comparable?

 

[daylightrobber]

As with any decision though, you have to look at the opportunity cost. What would anyone else have done any differently? You might well argue about the strength of any economic growth, but Britain is growing faster than any other European country.

As an example, France has a socialist government, yet their economy has fared much worse than ours over the last five years. Our unemployment rate is roughly half that of France, our youth unemployment rate is 10 percent lower than theirs, and their debt to GDP levels are 6 percent higher.

So sure, our government might have been able to do a lot better in many areas, but I'm not sure this automatic assumption that a Labour government would have done better really holds much water.

I guess it depends on the performance indicators you are comparing against. I believe that the economic cycle is a hard one to be confident on in regards to who would have done better or worse in terms of growth. I am absolutely confident however that had Labour won the last election and came out with the infamous "We're all in it together" line, then we would have shared the burden more evenly. In regards to that, I'm confident that the Labour Government would have done better.

I know I harp on about the injustices of society but........

• If you're going to cut benefits, you have to stop the tax dodgers. You do it in a manner whereby the vulnerable aren't victimised and you do it in a manner whereby the vulnerable aren't blamed. You also do it in a manner where those who break the law are punished accordingly and proportionately. I honestly don't think that the poorest in our society don't not want to contribute to our society. The number of 'genuine scroungers' is miniscule in the scheme of things and certainly in comparison to those who find ways not to contribute via the tax system.
• If you're going to give tax breaks to big business, you have to ensure that their staff are paid properly. You can't support those who have, in denying those who have not. I appreciate this is a very simplistic view on this matter.
• If you are going to hit the youth in their pockets, you have to hit the elderly in theirs too. You can't base who is targeted on who they are going to vote for.

Being better, doesn't equate to being richer, for me it equates to being more just. As an individual, as a nation.

 

[Goat]

 

[Joey66]

As with any decision though, you have to look at the opportunity cost. What would anyone else have done any differently? You might well argue about the strength of any economic growth, but Britain is growing faster than any other European country.

As an example, France has a socialist government, yet their economy has fared much worse than ours over the last five years. Our unemployment rate is roughly half that of France, our youth unemployment rate is 10 percent lower than theirs, and their debt to GDP levels are 6 percent higher.

So sure, our government might have been able to do a lot better in many areas, but I'm not sure this automatic assumption that a Labour government would have done better really holds much water.

There we go again the strongest country in the EU which is on the floor - if we had been in the Euro like Ken Clarke wanted, how would we have bailed ourselves out with 4 billion pounds of quantitative easing?
The cuts have just made the 1 percent of this country richer , and pay less tax!

 

[Joey66]

Dickens is good fun, but what does he have to do with the election? Is a government that spends £700bn a year really comparable?

Dickens was a socialist Google that like you do everything else!

 

[Joey66]

As with any decision though, you have to look at the opportunity cost. What would anyone else have done any differently? You might well argue about the strength of any economic growth, but Britain is growing faster than any other European country.

As an example, France has a socialist government, yet their economy has fared much worse than ours over the last five years. Our unemployment rate is roughly half that of France, our youth unemployment rate is 10 percent lower than theirs, and their debt to GDP levels are 6 percent higher.

So sure, our government might have been able to do a lot better in many areas, but I'm not sure this automatic assumption that a Labour government would have done better really holds much water.

If you think Zero hour contracts part time jobs, working for your unemployment benefit is a great achievement you have been conned if we have record employment why out the tax returns at a record low, reason low paid jobs!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I guess it depends on the performance indicators you are comparing against. I believe that the economic cycle is a hard one to be confident on in regards to who would have done better or worse in terms of growth. I am absolutely confident however that had Labour won the last election and came out with the infamous "We're all in it together" line, then we would have shared the burden more evenly. In regards to that, I'm confident that the Labour Government would have done better.

I know I harp on about the injustices of society but........

• If you're going to cut benefits, you have to stop the tax dodgers. You do it in a manner whereby the vulnerable aren't victimised and you do it in a manner whereby the vulnerable aren't blamed. You also do it in a manner where those who break the law are punished accordingly and proportionately. I honestly don't think that the poorest in our society don't not want to contribute to our society. The number of 'genuine scroungers' is miniscule in the scheme of things and certainly in comparison to those who find ways not to contribute via the tax system.
• If you're going to give tax breaks to big business, you have to ensure that their staff are paid properly. You can't support those who have, in denying those who have not. I appreciate this is a very simplistic view on this matter.
• If you are going to hit the youth in their pockets, you have to hit the elderly in theirs too. You can't base who is targeted on who they are going to vote for.

Being better, doesn't equate to being richer, for me it equates to being more just. As an individual, as a nation.

It's possible for sure. The reason I mentioned the French example is that they seem to have tried many of those things, with a higher top rate of tax and a general desire to see the wealthier pay more. I'm just not sure how successful it's been. If you look at the chart below, inequality in France is not really any different to here.

There we go again the strongest country in the EU which is on the floor - if we had been in the Euro like Ken Clarke wanted, how would we have bailed ourselves out with 4 billion pounds of quantitative easing?
The cuts have just made the 1 percent of this country richer , and pay less tax!

I'm comparing the UK with other countries of a similar size. How else do you propose we evaluate alternative approaches to the recent recession if not to assess countries that have taken those alternative approaches?

Dickens was a socialist Google that like you do everything else!

Why so angry mate? No need really. We're all Blues here, we just have different opinions on stuff.

 

[Joey66]

It's possible for sure. The reason I mentioned the French example is that they seem to have tried many of those things, with a higher top rate of tax and a general desire to see the wealthier pay more. I'm just not sure how successful it's been. If you look at the chart below, inequality in France is not really any different to here.

I'm comparing the UK with other countries of a similar size. How else do you propose we evaluate alternative approaches to the recent recession if not to assess countries that have taken those alternative approaches?



Why so angry mate? No need really. We're all Blues here, we just have different opinions on stuff.

Yes but googling around is sometimes an argument the world is flat - I have just had a bad day sorry if my arguments have offended anyone . but its just a debate, I sometimes suffer with anger attacks sorry if I have been unreasonable in your eyes. yes we are all blues

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I actually wrote about some research claiming that the Internet causes us to inflate our level of knowledge. Might make you smile

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes but googling around is sometimes an argument the world is flat - I have just had a bad day sorry if my arguments have offended anyone . but its just a debate, I sometimes suffer with anger attacks sorry if I have been unreasonable in your eyes. yes we are all blues

Not at all mate, no offense taken at my end, I just like to see folks happy. Anything we can help with?

 

[Joey66]

Not at all mate, no offense taken at my end, I just like to see folks happy. Anything we can help with?

Not really My elderly mother in law has just had a mini stroke - NHS suffering she has to wait for a brain scan so that set me off on the political route! enjoyed the debate took things off my mind - I have coped with getting over cancer too hopefully.

 

[daylightrobber]

It's possible for sure. The reason I mentioned the French example is that they seem to have tried many of those things, with a higher top rate of tax and a general desire to see the wealthier pay more. I'm just not sure how successful it's been. If you look at the chart below, inequality in France is not really any different to here.

Is the wealth gap widening or closing though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not really My elderly mother in law has just had a mini stroke - NHS suffering she has to wait for a brain scan so that set me off on the political route! enjoyed the debate took things off my mind - I have coped with getting over cancer too hopefully.

Sorry to hear that. Have you got a date for the scan?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Is the wealth gap widening or closing though.

Seems to be widening everywhere to be honest.

 

[TheFinnFan]

center party won our elections, new prime minister, juha sipilä

true finns came second, their leader timo soini is a millwall fan probs new
Chancellor of the Exchequer, interesting cause true finns are against any new greek loans