The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[daylightrobber]

Fastest growing economy in Europe, record low inflation rate, unemployment at lowest rate since 2008 keep minimum wage earnings out of tax, 30 hours free childcare a week for 3-4 year olds etc etc

I hear you and i'm not a conservative voter, but there is real tangible evidence that things are improving from the incumbents after inheriting one of the worst economic positions that Britain and the world has ever faced - which should not be underestimated.

Improving for who?


The Tory narrative on "the economic recovery" is generally a long way from the truth. They seem intent on talking up the fact that the UK has recovered to the pre-crisis economic peak, despite the fact that the UK was the last major western economy to do so. This so called recovery equates to growth of an aggregate of 0% over the last seven years!

The reality is that the GDP of the UK is now pretty much exactly the same as it was just before the economic crisis, however the economy has been massively rebalanced, with a huge increase in the share of the wealth in the hands of the top 0.5%, and a large reduction in the living standards of the majority due to wage repression, severe cuts to in work benefits, rampant inflation in the costs of food, housing, transport, and energy, and Gideon's hike in VAT.

 

[daylightrobber]

So how is it being dealt with.......

Seemingly by people doing the job of the state.

 

[daylightrobber]

We weren't always comfortable but I never went to school hungry.

I appreciate sometimes the money just isn't there, but I think quite often parents are putting other things before feeding their kids - even with benefit money that is supposed to do just that.

I reckon all schools should provide breakfast, which is subsidised for all and free for those at risk of not getting any on some sort of means tested basis.

I think this happens very rarely. One of the biggest myths going that the poor don't put their kids first. Evidence would suggest that parents will sacrifice their own health & well-being to provide basic essentials for their children. Unfortunately for some, that's often still not enough.

I suspect a lot of folk might be forgetting that the poorest in this country don't just have nothing, they are generally in debt. Servicing those debts just to keep a roof over their heads means whole families missing meals or living without heating and light.

 

[Clint Planet]

The word 'poverty' is being diminished by its constant overuse..........

http://www.poverty.ac.uk/definitions-poverty

 

[hullefc]

There are increasing numbers of children going to school hungry, due to the increasing use of sanctioning people on benefit. In the school I used to teach in, there were many many teachers, and support staff, that would buy kids food from the canteen. There were also the canteen staff that would 'slip' teachers food for children that had no money. As a teacher you got to know which kids lived in families that were on the breadline. And, like I said, many many teachers and support staff would make sure that they got some food and didn't go hungry.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'd be keen to know how they defined poverty. The charity that Esk linked to earlier defined anyone earning below the average income as being in poverty, which seemed to stretch things a tad.

 

[Clint Planet]

Joking aside, I think the changes in inequality are much larger than anything this government, or indeed any government, is responsible for. Things like globalisation, technology changes, the role of assets in wealth creation and the like are far more responsible for the change in income distribution than anything governments can do.

Sounds like a cop-out to me. It doesn't mean one shouldn't try your damdest to make a difference in redressing the imbalance and, as I keep pointing out (much to your consternation, it seems), poverty is a political decision.

 

[The Esk]

average income

Median income!

In some of the other links there's a tighter definition, for example the House of Commons Education Committee report I referred to used the figure of 60% of median income which almost certainly is going to mean tough times!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

http://www.poverty.ac.uk/definitions-poverty

Interesting overview of the different methods. I'd love to know both which is the best one, and which is used most commonly. There seems an awful lot of variance in what is measured and how it's measured.

 

[hullefc]

One in five parents struggling to feed their children

Children and Parents' Experiences of Food Insecurity in a ...

Nearly 100,000 of Britain's poorest children go hungry after ...

How Kids Company feeds Britain's hungry children | Society ...

"Cassie, on the other side of the table, says: “Sometimes I miss breakfast.”

Esther nods. “I didn’t have anything till lunch today. My belly was hurting.”

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sounds like a cop-out to me. It doesn't mean one shouldn't try your damdest to make a difference in redressing the imbalance and, as I keep pointing out (much to your consternation, it seems), poverty is a political decision.

I think you have to first understand what the problem is, which I'm not sure we do yet. Just throwing more money at what has always been done (and hasn't really worked) isn't the answer I don't think.

Median income!

In some of the other links there's a tighter definition, for example the House of Commons Education Committee report I referred to used the figure of 60% of median income which almost certainly is going to mean tough times!

Quite a big difference though. The median income is ~ £21,000, whereas 60 percent of that is £12,795. You'd have a lot more people in 'poverty' if you used the < median marker than you would the 60% one. Not saying either is right or wrong, but it would be good if there was one agreed on method that was used throughout.

 

[Clint Planet]

From Wiki (Poverty in the UK)

There is no one definition of poverty. The most common measure, as used in the Child Poverty Act 2010, is ‘household income below 60 percent of median income’. The median is such an income that exactly a half of households earn more than that and the other half earns less.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

From Wiki (Poverty in the UK)

There is no one definition of poverty. The most common measure, as used in the Child Poverty Act 2010, is ‘household income below 60 percent of median income’. The median is such an income that exactly a half of households earn more than that and the other half earns less.

Thanks. I gathered from reading the previous link you posted that this wasn't seen as an ideal metric though? I wonder if it's net or gross of tax? Looking at income distribution on Wikipedia and the figures are after tax.

 

[sd_1992]

Sounds like a cop-out to me. It doesn't mean one shouldn't try your damdest to make a difference in redressing the imbalance and, as I keep pointing out (much to your consternation, it seems), poverty is a political decision.

One that labour certainly seem to benefit a lot from

 

[Clint Planet]

I think you have to first understand what the problem is, which I'm not sure we do yet. Just throwing more money at what has always been done (and hasn't really worked) isn't the answer I don't think.

You don't know that it hasn't worked since you have no "control" to judge it against. It's very easy to glibly assert that since past efforts to fight poverty don't seem to have succeeded, there is little point in continuing to battle it. Who knows how much inequality and poverty there might now be had we not "thrown money at it" in the past? Certainly, the last five years seem to suggest that if we don't "throw money" at scroungers then the bastards get even poorer.

Who knew, eh? Pesky poor people.