The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[davek]

In the post I responded to you claimed that the Labour party were, during the 90's, more right-wing than the Tories. This is balderdash of the most delusional variety.

If you were to say "The Labour Party are not sufficiently left-leaning for my tastes" I would categorically accept this to be obviously true - you are easily the most left-leaning person I've ever encountered. However, "Not left enough for my liking" is not the same as "More to the right than the Tories"

New Labour was neo-liberal in as much as Blair successfully moved the party FROM the left TO the centre, straying into the centre-right in some policy areas for certain periods, but you're not gonna convince anyone that at any time Labour has been more right wing than the Tories.

Is that too elaborate for you?

Again, someone responding to what they think is written and not what actually is written. I stated that 'in many respects' the LP were more market driven than the Tories (for example,throwing the doors wide open to the private sector in the NHS than the Tories would have had the nerve to at the time).

 

[Tree13]

Yep, still sure about it. And Labour is a party of the political right these days, certainly to the right of the Tory party of Thatcher's day.

Genuine question pal, were you born before the late 80's?

 

[davek]

Good Lord. Are you now denying that over a thousand girls in the Rotheram area have been systematically abused on an organised scale by a group of adult males that share a certain "cultural identity", and that this issue has recently come to light?

Wow. Just wow.

No. I'm highlighting that to state a political party like Labour were using industrial scale rape as a strategy to secure votes is disgusting.

Do you ever actually read posts and take them in before replying to them?

*sigh*

 

[Blue 1]

Genuine question pal, were you born before the late 80's?

Yep. Mid 70's.

 

[Tree13]

Again, someone responding to what they think is written and not what actually is written. I stated that 'in many respects' the LP were more market driven than the Tories (for example,throwing the doors wide open to the private sector in the NHS than the Tories would have had the nerve to at the time).

You said the Labour party has been a party of the political right since the early 90's. I quoted you mate.

 

[Tree13]

Yep. Mid 70's.

Me too. I don't recall Thatcher the milk-snatching, war-mongering, eurosceptic strike-breaker being anything less than very to the right. More to the right than the present day Tories, who have been forced by circumstance to move toward the centre somewhat to contest the swing votes new labour gobbled up from 1997 onwards.

And the present day Tories are more to the right than the present day Labour party..... so how can present day Labour be more to the right than Thatcher's Tories?

 

[Tree13]

No. I'm highlighting that to state a political party like Labour were using industrial scale rape as a strategy to secure votes is disgusting.

Do you ever actually read posts and take them in before replying to them?

*sigh*

Keep up mate, I've already given you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

 

[roydo]

Me too. I don't recall Thatcher the milk-snatching, war-mongering, eurosceptic strike-breaker being anything less than very to the right.

As a 10 year old?

 

[Blue 1]

Me too. I don't recall Thatcher the Milk snatching, war-mongering, Eurosceptic strike-breaker being anything less than very to the right.

I don't remember Labour from '97 being anything that could be described as left wing though. They pretty much carried on where she left off, although a few things improved during their first term, and have drifted further rightward ever since, to the point of now being further to the right than her lot were, with the Tories beginning to head into Republican Tea-party realms.

Just my perception, anyway. Fair do's if yours is different.

 

[Tree13]

As a 10 year old?

I think you might be missing the point of that particular comment, old bean.

 

[Blue 1]

Me too. I don't recall Thatcher the milk-snatching, war-mongering, eurosceptic strike-breaker being anything less than very to the right. More to the right than the present day Tories, who have been forced by circumstance to move toward the centre somewhat to contest the swing votes new labour gobbled up from 1997 onwards.

And the present day Tories are more to the right than the present day Labour party..... so how can present day Labour be more to the right than Thatcher's Tories?

This lot have done things she wouldn't have dreamed of, or at least wouldn't have been able to get away with, the Mail sell-off, and carving up the NHS, which Labour started, for instance. They're miles to the right of the Tory party of her day, and Labour now fit inbetween them.

Blair was a bigger warmonger, too.

Edit: Can't believe I'm almost defending the old witch here. Christ!

 

[roydo]

I think you might be missing the point of that particular comment, old bean.

Indeed I did! soz lad.

 

[Tree13]

I don't remember Labour from '97 being anything that could be described as left wing though. They pretty much carried on where she left off, although a few things improved during their first term, and have drifted further rightward ever since, to the point of now being further to the right than her lot were, with the Tories beginning to head into Republican Tea-party realms.

Just my perception, anyway. Fair do's if yours is different.

I agree with you to an extent - new labour were not the left-leaning Labour of previous years. But that was because they positioned themselves to win the centre-left, centre and centre-right vote, isolating the Tories with a dwindling traditional right support.

I don't think they've idealogically moved further to the right than that, although in certain economic matters they have gone quite some distance further to the right to the same point as the Tories. I can't see how overall Labour can be seen as being to the right of the Tories - if so, why wouldn't they be hemorrhaging votes?

I made the same point to dave a few minutes ago - just because Labour aren't as left-leaning as some of their supporters want doesn't mean they've become the BNP!

 

[Tree13]

This lot have done things she wouldn't have dreamed of, or at least wouldn't have been able to get away with, the Mail sell-off, and carving up the NHS, which Labour started, for instance. They're miles to the right of the Tory party of her day, and Labour now fit inbetween them.

Blair was a bigger warmonger, too.

Edit: Can't believe I'm almost defending the old witch here. Christ!

Mate, what is more baffling is that I just slated her to make you leap to her defence. I think we both need a pint and some quiet time!

 

[Tree13]

Indeed I did! soz lad.

No worries at all mate!