The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Dell Boy]

Do you mind if I ask why?

I think the simple answer is all profits should be reinvested. It's too easy to just bring in the private sector.

We've had this discussion before matey. I'd like to see public sector employees on commercial, incentivised contracts. I'd like to see greater flexibility at the point of service.

With proper reform I see no need to bring in a private operator.

 

[Blue 1]

'None of the above' tells a tale as does 'cheese on toast' @ 28%...on a small sample it must be said

Seems to me that unless you are a really, really, really, committed greenie and I'm talking using your own poo to power your methane generator type greenie, not just an; only eggs marked free range from ASDA, turn a few lights off and recycle type greenie and the japs are bells for still hunting whales etc type greenie.
That a green vote on it's own is a wasted vote and that most are using the green vote as... in the absence of an official abstain box to tick, is a defacto abstention.
But the trouble is, with so many people voting green, for this and many other reasons ( faux or not ) it's turned them into a viable party and not just a gang of 'Good Life' wannabe's.

Most people can't relate can't relate to any major party in meaningful numbers

#wewantanabstainbox

Not really over here. The green party have come a long way since that was the case in this country and are pretty much the only viable genuinely progressive left option. I voted libdem last time because our MP is actually a decent guy and was defending a majority of 800 from Jacob Rees-Mogg's sister. He's stepping down as he's been our MP since the 90s so I'll not vote for them again, so Green or NOTA it is.

 

[roydo]

I'd like to see a political party in the UK that was:

- massively behind public services. With proper investment and an aversion to any form of privatisation
- not afraid to increase individual taxation but, at same time, recognises benefits of low corporation tax
- pro Europe
- no nonsense on crime & punishment (esp benefit fraud)
- anti monarchy & House of Lords

Wouldnt mind adding "half decent with the economy" to that list, cos without that, the rest of your wish list is meaningless. Other than the HOL & Monarchy.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think the simple answer is all profits should be reinvested. It's too easy to just bring in the private sector.

We've had this discussion before matey. I'd like to see public sector employees on commercial, incentivised contracts. I'd like to see greater flexibility at the point of service.

With proper reform I see no need to bring in a private operator.

Is that always the best thing to do though? Take Google for instance. Their core product is free for all to use, and is exceptionally good. They also invest a huge amount in non-search related things, and have made huge strides in areas such as augmented reality and driverless cars, yet, despite all of that they have a cash pile in reserve of around $33 billion. What exactly would they 'invest' that in? Apple are said to have a cash reserve of $150bn.

It seems wrong to suggest that either company aren't wildly successful, as both have a huge number of devout customers that value their products an awful lot. They're also highly sought after employers, so clearly treat their staff well.

Aren't we worrying too much about how much money is spent on things rather than the quality of the service that comes out at the end? Isn't it a positive thing if we can achieve more for less money? I mean the computing industry is built upon the principle of Moore's Law, and society has benefited enormously from that ability to double computing power for the same money every 18 months or so.

 

[Dell Boy]

@Bruce Wayne but the public sector is different. In the sense that the public purse can always appreciate extra funds to extend services to people in particular need. It doesn't have to go into bloating the system. There is an ever-present need for investment in infrastructure etc

 

[Blue 1]

Do you mind if I ask why?

For me, the main roblems are that with many services there are very few companies that can operate them, so they end up with virtual state-guaranteed monopolies. They are legally bound to do whatever they can within the law to give their shareholders a profit, which leads in many cases to shoddy services as they take the cheapest option every time meaning profit takes precedence over running a deceny service. The other is that due to corporate confidentiality laws regarding competition they are not subject to the same levels of scrutiny and accountability that state providers of the same services are.

 

[roydo]

@Bruce Wayne but the public sector is different. In the sense that the public purse can always appreciate extra funds to extend services to people in particular need. It doesn't have to go into bloating the system. There is an ever-present need for investment in infrastructure etc

I am convinced that the real issue with a lot of public services is the people who run them. From the often idealistic politician who may use said service for a political purpose/experiment, to the vastly overpaid, seemingly unaccountable, army of CEO's and middle managers.

Everyone who I have met, in a professional context, who works in the Police, NHS, Education, Social Services, and Council Services have been brilliant. Even HMRC are human!

But the yolk of political and managerial incompetence and the adherence to bonkers, top down, instructions is killing them.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

@Bruce Wayne but the public sector is different. In the sense that the public purse can always appreciate extra funds to extend services to people in particular need. It doesn't have to go into bloating the system. There is an ever-present need for investment in infrastructure etc

The thing I have, aside from the philosophical one of not giving the end user any choice, is two fold. In an active and competitive market, services generally have to get either better in quality or lower in price in order to survive. There have been countless examples of previously competitive companies losing their shirt when things move on, whether it was IBM when things shifted from mainframe to desktop, or Kodak when cameras became digital, or even GM when Toyota started to do things better.

The 'innovators dilemma' is a widely documented thing that prevents organisations with a dominant position in the market from innovating and improving themselves. The state run services must suffer from this massively. In areas such as healthcare and education there is a huge need for innovative solutions, yet few (if any) of the innovations in these industries have come from state suppliers.

It doesn't have to go into bloating the system, yet all evidence suggests that is exactly what happens. Healthcare systems around the world are funded based upon curing the sick (for instance). I wonder how things might change if they were instead funded on keeping people healthy instead? Vast amounts of medical research goes into diseases that are preventable by better lifestyles. I can't help thinking it's all arse about face.

For me, the main roblems are that with many services there are very few companies that can operate them, so they end up with virtual state-guaranteed monopolies. They are legally bound to do whatever they can within the law to give their shareholders a profit, which leads in many cases to shoddy services as they take the cheapest option every time meaning profit takes precedence over running a deceny service. The other is that due to corporate confidentiality laws regarding competition they are not subject to the same levels of scrutiny and accountability that state providers of the same services are.

I'm not sure we can say that really. When a monopoly exists, where is the incentive for a company to even bother trying?

I am convinced that the real issue with a lot of public services is the people who run them. From the often idealistic politician who may use said service for a political purpose/experiment, to the vastly overpaid, seemingly unaccountable, army of CEO's and middle managers.

Everyone who I have met, in a professional context, who works in the Police, NHS, Education, Social Services, and Council Services have been brilliant. Even HMRC are human!

But the yolk of political and managerial incompetence and the adherence to bonkers, top down, instructions is killing them.

Fully agree with this. Most of the people I've known or met that work in public services have been excellent, but the system they've worked within has made things very challenging.

 

[1966efc]

Trying terribly hard not to get further involved in this debate. The left / right arguments are well rehearsed.

The political, as opposed to the philosophical, point is simple enough: who can persuade a less than interested electorate that their standpoint is of greater merit.

There will always be those who regard personal wealth as being of greater importance than social cohesion and others who differ.

From the Corn Laws to the same sex marriage Act, Tories have been consistent. Remarkably similar to the Sinn Fein of twenty years ago in their inability to read the runes. Hence their inability to secure an overall majority for 22 years.

Good luck with the next eight or nine months of this thread!

 

[roydo]

Trying terribly hard not to get further involved in this debate. The left / right arguments are well rehearsed.

The political, as opposed to the philosophical, point is simple enough: who can persuade a less than interested electorate that their standpoint is of greater merit.

There will always be those who regard personal wealth as being of greater importance than social cohesion and others who differ.

From the Corn Laws to the same sex marriage Act, Tories have been consistent. Remarkably similar to the Sinn Fein of twenty years ago in their inability to read the runes. Hence their inability to secure an overall majority for 22 years.

Good luck with the next eight or nine months of this thread!

Well the Independence one softened GOT's view on political threads. And so far, that trust has been repaid.

 

[edge]

never thought i would say this but just watched Milliband on the andrew marr show , and was very impressed with him, needs to get a hair cut and maybe a beard so he looks a bit more serious, yep a decent beard could be the answer

 

[Brennan]

I always find the anti-monarchy stuff a bit weird to be honest.

They've got no power whatsoever, and are basically a tourist attraction and nice bit of tradition and history. They're also a consistently fantastic money spinner. The royal wedding alone for example, generated an extra £100m within London just on accommodation, travel and nightlife.

 

[edge]

I always find the anti-monarchy stuff a bit weird to be honest.

They've got no power whatsoever, and are basically a tourist attraction and nice bit of tradition and history. They're also a consistently fantastic money spinner. The royal wedding alone for example, generated an extra £100m within London just on accommodation, travel and nightlife.

cant say i am botherd by them at all, young ones seem ok., not a job i would like.

 

[Dell Boy]

never thought i would say this but just watched Milliband on the andrew marr show , and was very impressed with him, needs to get a hair cut and maybe a beard so he looks a bit more serious, yep a decent beard could be the answer

I agree to an extent. He can be okay but his image is terrible. And I know he's had some operation to improve things but he still mangles every word. In a media focused world he should never have been elected leader.

 

[edge]

I agree to an extent. He can be okay but his image is terrible. And I know he's had some operation to improve things but he still mangles every word. In a media focused world he should never have been elected leader.

so true, just hope the party gives a bit of clear water between them and the tory party on policy so people look past that, if he was brave enough now is the time to go for it with the present mood in the country