The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[mrs the esk]

lol yeah, that's the place. It's a pity I didn't know you when I lived in it. I'd have invited you round for tea. Bet you'd have loved it

There's still some from that era available though if you want somewhere a bit cheaper. Only £285,000 for this beauty (which is still out of reach of most working people I would suggest).

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34895902#oIXSGcVlEuSXOSp0.97

But only the other day you were saying that the development of the estate was a good idea. Now you are complaining about the cost of living on the new development.

Huge contradiction there I think.

 

[The Esk]

@Bruce Wayne I'd give up mate if I was you.

She's spotted an injured animal and is coming in for the kill lol

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You conveniently ignore the fact that there is a clear correlation between ones financial situation and ones health. It stands to reason that if you improve peoples well being then their collective health improves also

Secondly, the NHS spend significant sums on health promotion and illness prevention, let's not pretend they don't.

You're presenting your view from your own perspective, that of an educated, healthy motivated person who is sufficiently motivated and educated to do the correct things for himself and his family. Sadly not everyone is able to do that either through disability, illness, often mental illness, such as depression in its many forms, inability to take on board health messages and advice, alcoholism, drug abuse, or just the fact that they're so worn down by the history of failure and non-achievement they cannot do even the simplest things to improve their own lives.

It's not just money, it's a requirement by Government to produce an integrated policy that says we are going to eradicate poverty in all its forms. It requires investment in people, training, education - it will take a generation at least to put right, but it will never be put right unless a Government makes it a priority and invests in it.

Not ignoring, but I don't think correlation equals causation. I'm inclined to think that the skills required to make one wealthy are also those that ensure one is healthy. Of course not all the time, but probably by and large. Whether it's the lottery winner or the person who recently lost a limb, there is countless evidence out there showing that a radical change in circumstances does little to change how a person is in the long-term.

I've no doubt that the NHS spends some on health promotion, but I believe it's around 1% of the total budget. That suggests that it isn't really a priority. If you think of some of the major lifestyle changes that people undergo, it's hard. The vast majority of new years resolutions fail. If you have a personal trainer or an executive coach or whatever, you probably see them for several hours each week, yet most people see their GP for 5 minutes per visit, which is very sporadically. Even community health professionals such as health visitors only see people for a few hours every couple of months.

I can see a time when a lot more of this is done via mobile devices. Siri is already getting a lot better as a virtual PA, and we can see with Watson that it is very effective in healthcare situations. How long before our mobile PAs have Watson like grunt behind them and can be our healthcare coach, with the phone used to record all manner of our bodily readings?

I know your daughter is training to be a doctor, and I don't mean to offend, but for prevention to occur, it really needs to be taken out of the hands of the doctors as there simply isn't enough of them to do this effectively. To change and coach someone it needs daily communication, support, guidance. There aren't enough doctors to do that by a long shot.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But only the other day you were saying that the development of the estate was a good idea. Now you are complaining about the cost of living on the new development.

Huge contradiction there I think.

I think it is, the existing houses were blooming horrible. I'm not sure building slightly nicer houses is responsible for houses being so expensive. Probably the biggest cause of that is the continuous printing of cheap money by the BoE.

 

[mrs the esk]

See, it's that kind of misunderstood rhetoric that doesn't help matters. Elephant & Castle is regarded as a poor/working class area right at this minute. It's regarded as a poor and working class area when the Heygate is nothing but rubble on the ground.

So how on earth do you believe the construction of several thousand new homes make the area lose the number of 'poor' people in it compared to none of those homes existing right now?

It's madness. The housing bubble is largely caused by a lack of housing, yet within a couple of minutes walk from my house there are probably 4 housing developments under construction. And you still spin that as a bad thing because those houses won't be affordable enough. Ffs.

Harriet Harmon is the MP for Southwark. Maybe you should drop her a line.

Ok, I'll try and make it easier for you to understand. The Heygate has been empty since 2007, so for at least 7 years now, by your logic, the poor will have been cleansed from the area. That hasn't happened at all, and it is still predominantly a working class part of town.

Given that baseline, how therefore can the construction of around 3,000 new homes make the area less friendly to working class people than it is currently?

We've done that pretty much every year in my lifetime to be honest. I'm inclined to think that whatever gains the economy has seen in the past few years have been obtained by the government hitting the printing presses. It'll come home to roost before long.

There was a bloke from the Soros fund on the radio over the weekend, and he was massively pessimistic about western economies because of how highly geared they still are, with most of that coming from a glut of cheap money hot off of the presses.

We had a look at the new housing development going up near us, and the cheapest 1 bed was £450,000 (but they were all sold). They have a couple of 2 beds available though for £620,000. Funny old world.

lol yeah, that's the place. It's a pity I didn't know you when I lived in it. I'd have invited you round for tea. Bet you'd have loved it

There's still some from that era available though if you want somewhere a bit cheaper. Only £285,000 for this beauty (which is still out of reach of most working people I would suggest).

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34895902#oIXSGcVlEuSXOSp0.97

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I've been vaulted. Seriously though, I think that's looking at the wrong thing. Even the 2nd property I linked is going to be out of reach for most people, and it's bloody horrible.

Why are houses in London so expensive? Heck, the Standard had a piece the other day about a car parking space in Mayfair on the market for £1.8 million or something insane. Oh no, here it is, £2.25 million. Bonkers.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ecourt-is-on-sale-for-225million-9792898.html

 

[Eggs]

lol I've been vaulted. Seriously though, I think that's looking at the wrong thing. Even the 2nd property I linked is going to be out of reach for most people, and it's bloody horrible.

Why are houses in London so expensive? Heck, the Standard had a piece the other day about a car parking space in Mayfair on the market for £1.8 million or something insane. Oh no, here it is, £2.25 million. Bonkers.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/is-this-the-most-expensive-car-park-in-the-world-with-room-for-just-eight-cars-this-mayfair-forecourt-is-on-sale-for-225million-9792898.html

......I think its called supply and demand.

 

[Coach]

Shurely shome mishtake?

It seems the country is not paying down it's debts.

Cameron wouldn't lie about the economy would he?

 

[roydo]

Shurely shome mishtake?

It seems the country is not paying down it's debts.

Cameron wouldn't lie about the economy would he?

Those numbers are terrifying. And some context.

If it took you 12 days to count £1 MILLION pound notes, it would take you about 34 YEARS to count just £1 BILLION pound notes.

I could show the workings, but I cant be bothered, but it isnt far out, believe me.

 

[Blue 1]

Shurely shome mishtake?

It seems the country is not paying down it's debts.

Cameron wouldn't lie about the economy would he?

Have they claimed to be paying down our debts?

I'm all for a bit of Tory bashing but I thought they'd only claimed to be bringing down the deficit. Everyone knows they've added astronomically to the country's debt, don't they?

That said, weren't there stories about the deficit going up again today?

 

[Clint Planet]

That isn't the problem here. The problem is making the horse drink the water. That's why I think schools should be trying to enthuse children about learning and giving them the skills to find and digest the information they find.

I imagine most teachers would be rather insulted by your oft-repeated notion that they're not constantly trying to enthuse the children in their estimable care or indeed furnish them with the skills they need. I know I am. You really have no idea how tough it is (and yes, I know you've "been in schools").

All the material is already out there. Schools don't have a monopoly on that any more.

Ha ha, another sly dig, implying that "schools" have somehow jealously guarded "the material" like Masons or something. Teachers want childen to access as much learning as possible - it's their job. The material might be out there, however, but the skillful, face-to-face delivery by trained professionals is slightly different to subject matter they deliver. Schools provide a wealth of vital pastoral care and PSHE that no amount of on-line learning can give.

But getting back to "The Problem" (making the horse drink). You're looking at it all from completely the wrong angle. The way to make the horse drink is to treat it with respect. To make the horse beileve that by drinking it will benefit the horse. The horse needs to believe in the people who took it to water and it needs to know that they believe in him. It needs to have mummy and daddy horses who feel valued by society, who have self-respect and purpose to life, who don't feel hoodwinked and patronised, abandoned and demonised and so who then pass on a postive message about society and education to their little baby horse. When all that's in place, the horse might finally get a bit of a thirst on.

 

[mrs the esk]

But getting back to "The Problem" (making the horse drink). You're looking at it all from completely the wrong angle. The way to make the horse drink is to treat it with respect. To make the horse beileve that by drinking it will benefit the horse. The horse needs to believe in the people who took it to water and it needs to know that they believe in him. It needs to have mummy and daddy horses who feel valued by society, who have self-respect and purpose to life, who don't feel hoodwinked and patronised, abandoned and demonised and so who then pass on a postive message about society and education to their little baby horse. When all that's in place, the horse might finally get a bit of a thirst on.

Beautifully written and absolutely correct! xx

 

[Clint Planet]

I was just interested in the priorities accusation (ie that governments could solve poverty but it isn't a priority), as social mobility hasn't shifted for a generation, so this must be a cross party thing. It's always a trade-off isn't it, whether with us as individuals or an organisation, such as a government?

It's pretty rare for someone to substantially lower their own standard of living in order to help others, which is an indication of their own priorities isn't it? I'm sure a government could double/triple/quadruple the welfare budget if they so desired, but that would require other departments seeing a huge cut in their own budgets.

That will manifest itself in the coming years as departments such as the NHS have had their budgets ring-fenced, so others will see their own budgets squeezed as the government try to make ends meet. We have to be honest with ourselves here don't we? I think the government has had a surplus in something like 3 of the last 25 years, which suggests that it has regularly spent beyond its means.

Esk is a business man. He wouldn't be a business man for long I'd imagine if he operated in such a way. We cannot expect the state to be all things to all people. There should be no shame in saying that it will prioritise things, nor that there are other organisations that may have better answers than the state does.

Perhaps we could tax the super-rich, cancel Trident and go after the multi-nationals to raise the extra money. Perhaps we could enforce the Living Wage. Maybe we could close all manner of tax loopholes. Possibly, we could outlaw zero-hours contracts. Just a thought.

 

[Coach]

Have they claimed to be paying down our debts?

I'm all for a bit of Tory bashing but I thought they'd only claimed to be bringing down the deficit. Everyone knows they've added astronomically to the country's debt, don't they?

That said, weren't there stories about the deficit going up again today?

Yes Cameron has told the same lie on more than one occasion.

Cameron made the claim in the Tory party political broadcast in 2013:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/01/david-cameron-rebuked-over-debt-claims

The ONS bollocked him then, only for him to repeat the lie in his speech at the Tory party conference earlier this month:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-criticised-dodgy-debt-4374387

The ONS pulled him up on it once again.

The fact that he has done it on more than one occasion shows to me that it was not an error the first time but a deliberate attempt to mislead people.

 

[toffee matt]

Are their any senior politicians in this country that don't lie/bend the truth?