The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

Who will you be voting for?

  • Tory

    Votes: 38 9.9%
  • Diet Tory (Labour)

    Votes: 132 34.3%
  • Tory Zero (Greens)

    Votes: 44 11.4%
  • Extra Tory with lemon (UKIP)

    Votes: 40 10.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 9 2.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 31 8.1%
  • Cheese on toast

    Votes: 91 23.6%

  • Total voters
    385
  • Poll closed .
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Of course, and I've mentioned a few times in this thread the notion of the fortune at the bottom of the pyramid and how that's encouraging companies to adopt a more innovative approach in providing products and services to the billion or so people in the world on very little money.

I'm just not sure the traditional mechanisms of government support are working. We've discussed at length on the site that the free education provided to all doesn't seem to be working for certain sections of society.

It's largely the same with the NHS. A study in the BMJ a few years ago suggested that the gap between the health of the richest and the poorest was the greatest (in 2007) than at any other time in the 100 years or so that they were recording that kind of thing.

The provision of free education and free healthcare (plus generous welfare payments) don't appear to be working, yet the only solutions seeming to come out of Whitehall is to do more of the same. There's a suggestion that these things would work if only they had more money. I'm not sure we can make that assumption.

You really are something else. Did it never occur to you that "free healthcare for all" and "free education for all" are somewhat undermined by the concurrent availability of private education and private healthcare?

Here's one for you: My ex-father-in-law was a neuro-surgeon at Hope Hospital in Manchester. He told me he could earn 95% of his NHS wage whilst only working 60% of the time doing NHS work, the rest of it the lucrative private stuff. Worse than that, he was contractually obliged - even though he absolutely detested the notion - to work 10% of his time in private consultancy work. He did the minumum private work; his colleagues did the maximum.

If that isn't private enterprise undermining equality by selling "queue jumping" to the better off, I don't know what is.
 

Yes Cameron has told the same lie on more than one occasion.

Cameron made the claim in the Tory party political broadcast in 2013:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/feb/01/david-cameron-rebuked-over-debt-claims

The ONS bollocked him then, only for him to repeat the lie in his speech at the Tory party conference earlier this month:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-criticised-dodgy-debt-4374387

The ONS pulled him up on it once again.

The fact that he has done it on more than one occasion shows to me that it was not an error the first time but a deliberate attempt to mislead people.

Ok fair do's.

Lying turd.
 
Have they claimed to be paying down our debts?

I'm all for a bit of Tory bashing but I thought they'd only claimed to be bringing down the deficit. Everyone knows they've added astronomically to the country's debt, don't they?

That said, weren't there stories about the deficit going up again today?

I think most people think the actual debt is falling.

Crazy.
 
I imagine most teachers would be rather insulted by your oft-repeated notion that they're not constantly trying to enthuse the children in their estimable care or indeed furnish them with the skills they need. I know I am. You really have no idea how tough it is (and yes, I know you've "been in schools").

Ha ha, another sly dig, implying that "schools" have somehow jealously guarded "the material" like Masons or something. Teachers want childen to access as much learning as possible - it's their job. The material might be out there, however, but the skillful, face-to-face delivery by trained professionals is slightly different to subject matter they deliver. Schools provide a wealth of vital pastoral care and PSHE that no amount of on-line learning can give.

But getting back to "The Problem" (making the horse drink). You're looking at it all from completely the wrong angle. The way to make the horse drink is to treat it with respect. To make the horse beileve that by drinking it will benefit the horse. The horse needs to believe in the people who took it to water and it needs to know that they believe in him. It needs to have mummy and daddy horses who feel valued by society, who have self-respect and purpose to life, who don't feel hoodwinked and patronised, abandoned and demonised and so who then pass on a postive message about society and education to their little baby horse. When all that's in place, the horse might finally get a bit of a thirst on.

I'm not trying to belittle the role of teachers, but I do hear an awful lot that they are limited because of the constraints of the curriculum. It's very difficult to teach something that isn't strictly included in the curriculum, and the exams that come at the end of the curriculum.

I'm not sure the system helps in that regard. The second part isn't a dig at teachers or schools, merely an observation that the days when learning stopped when you graduate from school or university are over. Today it's merely the beginning, not the end.

Sadly it's been all too rare in my professional life to meet colleagues that had a love of learning and developed their skills every day. Of course, that isn't simply the fault of schools at all, but it's a competitive world out there, and I think maintaining your knowledge is key.

The world of the horse you describe sounds a very sad one. May I ask? There seems a lot of anger and bitterness displayed in some of these kind of threads, whether against Thatcher or the modern government or whoever. Do you think that gets passed on to the younger generation? That the system is out to get them, that they're looked down on and so on? It's just that the world you describe makes it sound as though we live on different planets. It isn't one I recognise at all, and I come from a working class background too.

Perhaps we could tax the super-rich, cancel Trident and go after the multi-nationals to raise the extra money. Perhaps we could enforce the Living Wage. Maybe we could close all manner of tax loopholes. Possibly, we could outlaw zero-hours contracts. Just a thought.

No arguments from me there. As was discussed earlier, it's about priorities I guess, and I'd have no qualms with corporate welfare being slashed or Trident, as you say. Sadly government is awash with rent seeking, and the lobbying industry is vast.

You really are something else. Did it never occur to you that "free healthcare for all" and "free education for all" are somewhat undermined by the concurrent availability of private education and private healthcare?

If that isn't private enterprise undermining equality by selling "queue jumping" to the better off, I don't know what is.

I don't think so. As I've said previously, all that matters to me is that the quality of service at the end of it is really high. Who provides it is irrelevant. The RSA for instance run a couple of academies, and I'd imagine that the quality is very high. Are they private or are they state?

I'm not sure it's helpful to think in terms of state = good, private = bad. It limits our thinking and acceptance that there may be things each can learn from the other, much in the same way that Labour = good, Tories = bad (or vice versa) does.

Thank you, Milton Friedman.

I'd have thought you'd be opposed to that. I mean it's basically a gift to those who own property isn't it and a tax on those that have savings or low incomes.
 

I think most people think the actual debt is falling.

Crazy.

It falls incredibly rarely. As I've said previously, the government has only operated with a surplus in 3 of the last 25 years. Every other year, the debt has been added to, and that's before all of the various off balance sheet shenanigans are taken into account, such as PFIs, pensions and so on. Some of the accounting practices deployed by the state would make Enron blush.
 
Seems like Cameron is between a rock and a hard place over Europe. UKIP and the Tory Eurosceptics on one side and the British public on the other...

1413986621617_wps_1_Picture_Device_Independen.jpg
 
http://theconversation.com/radical-...fails-to-tackle-problem-of-productivity-33389

Interesting piece on the latest plans by NHS England chief Simon Stevens. It's nice that it acknowledges that productivity challenges faced by the service, and how it tends to suffer from Baumols disease. The only way to change that will be to change how the service operates rather than trying to do the same things slightly differently.
 
http://theconversation.com/radical-...fails-to-tackle-problem-of-productivity-33389

Interesting piece on the latest plans by NHS England chief Simon Stevens. It's nice that it acknowledges that productivity challenges faced by the service, and how it tends to suffer from Baumols disease. The only way to change that will be to change how the service operates rather than trying to do the same things slightly differently.

Productivity = greater exploitation of an already hard worked and underpaid workforce. Put simply: it's just not on.

An argument like that being put forward when a parallel debate is taking place about a stagnating (possibly deflationary) economy that underlines tackling falls in real wages/spending power as being crucial to breaking out of that spiral.

In short: the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing with these policy wonks.
 

Productivity = greater exploitation of an already hard worked and underpaid workforce. Put simply: it's just not on.

An argument like that being put forward when a parallel debate is taking place about a stagnating (possibly deflationary) economy that underlines tackling falls in real wages/spending power as being crucial to breaking out of that spiral.

In short: the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing with these policy wonks.

It isn't just about working harder though is it? I'm sure many front-line staff would love to have to do less paperwork for instance. My other half has to first hand write notes, then transcribe those onto a computer system, then copy those onto another system to ensure colleagues in other departments have access to it. Making improvements in that process would mean she spends a bit less than the 40-50% of her time on documentation and more time with actual patients.
 
It isn't just about working harder though is it? I'm sure many front-line staff would love to have to do less paperwork for instance. My other half has to first hand write notes, then transcribe those onto a computer system, then copy those onto another system to ensure colleagues in other departments have access to it. Making improvements in that process would mean she spends a bit less than the 40-50% of her time on documentation and more time with actual patients.
Yes, maybe. But the savings in efficiency will take you so far, certainly nowhere near the leap in productivity they ask for. That will only come by getting a workforce working more hours for the same wage.

As said, it's a neanderthal approach which only adds fuel to the fire of the greater problem of low consumption/growth in the economy because it ultimately contributes to stagnation.
 
Yes, maybe. But the savings in efficiency will take you so far, certainly nowhere near the leap in productivity they ask for. That will only come by getting a workforce working more hours for the same wage.

As said, it's a neanderthal approach which only adds fuel to the fire of the greater problem of low consumption/growth in the economy because it ultimately contributes to stagnation.

Or by using technology to do things previously done by people.
 

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