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The 5/4/2016 pro Martinez thread
- Thread starter The_Rat
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In the day of 24 hour news cycles and instant gratification SAF and HK would not have made it.
It is the world we live in and better to accept it rather than fight it. It's the world we live in today.
Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is reality.
It is the world we live in and better to accept it rather than fight it. It's the world we live in today.
Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is reality.
You know if he wins the Cup he will not be dismissed. I want that trophy more than anything.
Sadly for me it will means there will be a dark stormy cloud continuing to linger over the club as we enter 2016-17.
Just to clarify for our American friends, if you're wondering why the date in this thread title says the 4th of May, it doesn't. We do things properly in this country!
The_Rat
Player Valuation: £950k
I can't win this argument as things stand, I know that.
But we have a semi final on the horizon and possibly a trophy in the cabinet to come.
It is not unthinkable we could totally kick on from there and become the best we could possibly be.
Fine margins have killed us this season and it's affected the players for sure.
A new season with finer tuning and momentum could see us absolutely destroy anything put in our way.
This is NOT a Mike Walker situation.
But we have a semi final on the horizon and possibly a trophy in the cabinet to come.
It is not unthinkable we could totally kick on from there and become the best we could possibly be.
Fine margins have killed us this season and it's affected the players for sure.
A new season with finer tuning and momentum could see us absolutely destroy anything put in our way.
This is NOT a Mike Walker situation.
The_Rat
Player Valuation: £950k
Finally a serious reply.
Why do they do that?
Americans, why do you mess up the date structure whilst also having Donald Trump running for President. WTF is wrong with you?
Sorry mate there's nothing left in the pro Martinez tank. As fans sing when your getting beat and start to walk out..... "Time to go time to gooooo time to gooooooooo ef of"
Howard Kendal had no experience in management at the highest level when he took over at Everton, he'd been successful in a lower division for a couple of years and was therefore a bit of a gamble. Roberto Martinez has six years experience in the top flight, with a track record of progressive failure bar one outstanding season with which to measure him. Kevin Brock moments are very rare I'm afraid.
Do I need to quote my own post from two or so days ago that should've piped you down from using that? It is nothing to do with that. Times evolve, teams evolve, players evolve, fans evolve - things move forward. Sorry this isn't the 70s/80s when the fans were more patient. Also they probably were as Kendall was actually someone in the eyes of the fans and the board - he was already a Legend, not someone who relegated a side, but won a cup.
If you inherit a stable team and take it backwards you're in deep trouble.
So let's breakdown something here, as I was reading up on the topic earlier: Kendall vs Martinez.
Despite what the people are saying that the football and everything was crap (and it probably was, I can't say anything here for obvious reasons, but let's ignore that fact for one second) - when Kendall joined as manager Everton STALLED, i.e. finished 7-8th for 3 seasons straight, we didn't go backwards. In fact, Kendall took over, and we were a lot lower down the league, he picked us up and consecutively finished between 7th and 8th, for 3 years straight, before winning everything in sight. So, in other words (because you're Dave #2 and you'll clearly not understand, I'm guessing?), Kendall inherited a worse-off side, got them to a better league finish in the first time of asking, then kept them there until he actually progressed and we all know what happened next. As a side note - in all of Kendall's unsuccessful campaigns, so to say, Goodison was a fortress, as we have lost a total of 8 home games over 3 seasons.
Martinez, on the other hand, inherited a very stable side finishing 5-7th for the last 5 years or so, got them to finish... 5th (RECORD POINTS THO LAD 72 MAGICAL NUMBER THAT LAD, I know, but 5th is 5th), and now we've finished 11th once, and we're on course for a same/worse finish this year. To blatantly spell it out - he took a good side, and, in essence, ruined it, by finishing lower and lower, and playing worse and worse, and looking less and less competitive by the year. Might I also remind that he got a fantastic squad of players, added some very good players himself (all on him, RFM, Lukaku, Del, etc are his transfers obviously) and has somehow gotten worse. Signs of a good manager that I want to trust for another year, that.
Do you now, PROBABLY HOPEFULLY, see why people want Martinez out? Nothing to do with instant gratification of any sort, he's just out of his depth here, and it proves by the game. OH BUT WE'RE IN THE CUP LAD THOUGH is what you'll say, and well done to us/him for that. Except we lucked past Bournemouth who could've scored several times before we actually woke up up, as they had the chances, and the other two before that were the FA giants of... Carlisle and Dag & Red. Round after that, we beat Chelsea, was a good game, we actually looked solid. But, see, we can't look solid in 1-2 games and then look disorganised, gormless and spiritless for the next 5-6 every single time.
I hope we win the cup, but I also hope he goes after that. He's done for me, he's done for nearly everybody that supports Everton. Not because of instant gratification (AGAIN), but because he dug himself into a hole, by blaming everyone and their nan, instead of confessing he's made a mistake; also literally 3 years have passed since we've known he doesn't want to work on defence and set pieces, and both of those things have cost us plenty of games, and nothing's changed. THREE years.
I'm sure you're essentially WUM-ming a-la Davek here anyway, but thought I'd answer before I go to bed anyway, for fun.
Jamo Martinez
Player Valuation: £70m
Pretty sure they were well safe under Pearson at the end of last season
JLW
Player Valuation: £60m
At what point do you see us kicking on?? 2 shocking seasons out of 3 with a very good squad is enough time to prove he's not good enough.
If he stays in charge next season and players leave then we might well have a Mike Walker situation. Stop the rot now!!!!
I will try to read in the morning...looks daunting. I respect you very much but it's late and I have a very busy day too.
I will stand by the argument that SAF and HK would have likely not made it in today's world.
Blue Cheese
Mental Patient, GOT Ward
Can't see anything positive in him staying. He simply can't set a team up to defend and in this league you get punished.
Summary: neither would anyone else from the 80s, because that's what it is - the 80's, 30+ years ago. Jose or Pep would've probably been crap back in the 80's if they were managing then, we have absolutely no way of knowing, as time travelling isn't here yet.
People, clubs, teams, fans, players, chairmen, managers and EVERYTHING about football evolves and goes forward, expectations change, ways of operating clubs change, values change, money has changed massively (arguably what changed half the things). You can't compare the 80s with today, it's impossible. That's the same argument that baby boomers use - "if only you were X years old back in the 60/70/80's, you'd know/do better/differently". I'm not though am I? Are you the same person as your grandfather, or even father? Cuz I doubt you speak and think and do exactly the same things. In the same sense, you don't expect the club to be ran the same way as it was in the 1980s.
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