The 5/4/2016 pro Martinez thread

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oldblue said:
Good alliteration but saying arguments are drenched in delusion doesn't make much sense to me. Personally I've spent years pondering what could make Everton successful. I'm very grounded and I see possibilities and little to think things will get worse.
You've made a lot of presumptions about what will happen but are they backed up by anything but your feelings
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they're backed up by the fact that 5 of our 9 wins have come against the bottom 3, 1 against by far the worst Chelsea team in years who cost Mourinho his job, 1 against stoke who were on a run of 4 defeats, Our "best" two wins were against west Brom and Southampton in September. Everton are better than this.

In all your years of pondering did consecutive bottom half finishes fit the equation of success?
 
oldblue said:
Good alliteration but saying arguments are drenched in delusion doesn't make much sense to me. Personally I've spent years pondering what could make Everton successful. I'm very grounded and I see possibilities and little to think things will get worse.
You've made a lot of presumptions about what will happen but are they backed up by anything but your feelings
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I'm sure we've all spent years pondering
what can make us successful. Your not unique in that respect so don't be pitching yourself as some wise Everton scholar.
 
kithnou said:
It was a good post. I respect it.
The bad patch. How long has it been going for?
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To be honest in terms of patches I think we've been generally poor performance wise since the West Brom game. Up to that point I'd say we just weren't turning things into results.
No offence meant by original post by the way. I usually do read your posts so that's probably why I reacted.
 

blueblue said:
I would have no problem in giving RM any amount of money to spend. He has bought incredibly well.

The problem is that he is not building a winning team.
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See i don't even agree with this.

I've seen a few people mention that his record of buying players is great, and even saying he could be director of football. I just don't see it.

Don't get me wrong, he hasn't been awful in the transfer market, and he's undoubtedly signed some good players, but I honestly don't see how it can be classed doing 'incredibly well'.

Lukaku has obviously been a massive success, but at £28m and with 2 proven seasons behind him you would expect no less. Barry and Lennon have been very good for us, but again they were known quantities. I think he's yet to sign a real bargain, in the way that Moyes did very regularly. Galloway will probably be one to be fair, Besic could be, but it's disappointing that after nearly 2 full seasons we're still waiting for him to really kick on. Deulofeu falls into the same bracket, and Robles doesn't look to me like the long term answer in goal.

McCarthy was massively overpriced for me. Our own signing of Besic, and the likes of Kante and Kouyate at other clubs, have shown that there was much better value out there for midfielders. Niasse has it all on to justify his fee at the moment, nevermind turn out to be a bargain, but we'll see how it goes for him. Mori has done pretty well, but if we're being honest a lot of the praise he's got is just because people were terrified that Vickery was right and he was going to be useless. I think we'd usually expect a bit more from a £9.5m defender truth be told, but as I say, I like him anyway. Kone is, well, Kone. Not a great signing in my book.

I won't go over the loans and cheap signings because they're a punt to be fair and I don't blame him if some of them don't come off. I'd say his transfer record is mixed overall, and I would be a little bit wary of giving him a massive kitty.

There are positives to Martinez, I know there are and I've praised him for plenty of things in the past. At the moment though, the negatives are massively outweighing the positives, and I just can't see him turning that around.
 
Jimmy1 said:
I'm sure we've all spent years pondering
what can make us successful. Your not unique in that respect so don't be pitching yourself as some wise Everton scholar.
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I'm actually just saying I'm not delusional so maybe you need to take other people's arguments seriously
 
oldblue said:
To be honest in terms of patches I think we've been generally poor performance wise since the West Brom game. Up to that point I'd say we just weren't turning things into results.
No offence meant by original post by the way. I usually do read your posts so that's probably why I reacted.
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I'm humbled my friend.
I think you will know my sarcastic posting style from time to time is never meant to offend.
How's that for positivity? ;)
 
bluewally said:
they're backed up by the fact that 5 of our 9 wins have come against the bottom 3, 1 against by far the worst Chelsea team in years who cost Mourinho his job, 1 against stoke who were on a run of 4 defeats, Our "best" two wins were against west Brom and Southampton in September. Everton are better than this.

In all your years of pondering did consecutive bottom half finishes fit the equation of success?
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Well the reference was to players going and other things that could happen so no point me answering any of that.
And the point was about people who think things could change not being delusional. Again not relevant.
Ta for reply
 
oldblue said:
I'm actually just saying I'm not delusional so maybe you need to take other people's arguments seriously
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Fair enough. However, and ive said this a few times in the various threads now, I'm not reading any pro arguments other than the old washed out excuses. My opinion of course. I'm eagerly waiting for someone to explain why keeping Martinez is a must that doesn't include the same reasons we have been hearing for over a year now.
 

Jimmy1 said:
Fair enough. However, and ive said this a few times in the various threads now, I'm not reading any pro arguments other than the old washed out excuses. My opinion of course. I'm eagerly waiting for someone to explain why keeping Martinez is a must that doesn't include the same reasons we have been hearing for over a year now.
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I've not read people saying it's a must to be honest
 
oldblue said:
Well the reference was to players going and other things that could happen so no point me answering any of that.
And the point was about people who think things could change not being delusional. Again not relevant.
Ta for reply
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Yup ignore the reality
That's pretty close to a definition of delusional
 

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