The EU deal

[dandydan]

The Scots love scousers, they see us as not very English. I'll be fine. I'll wear a kilt and engage in drunken domestic violence to fit in.

Try not to go too native and get hooked on scag.

 

[daylightrobber]

It's probably worth pointing out that all the talk of unaccountability and unelected governance from those wanting out, is absolute nonsense. There is a European parliament and the electorate vote representatives in and out just as they do at national level There may well be a lot of unelected bureaucrats, just as there are in the civil service, but decisions are made by parliament and by the elected representatives of member states.

 

[dandydan]

It's probably worth pointing out that all the talk of unaccountability and unelected governance from those wanting out, is absolute nonsense. There is a European parliament and the electorate vote representatives in and out just as they do at national level There may well be a lot of unelected bureaucrats, just as there are in the civil service, but decisions are made by parliament and by the elected representatives of member states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Ashton

 

[daylightrobber]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Ashton

From the page you have just linked.
"Her appointment was agreed at a summit by 27 European Union leaders in Brussels.”

 

[dandydan]

From the page you have just linked.
"Her appointment was agreed at a summit by 27 European Union leaders in Brussels.”

I don't recall her name on a ballot sheet, do you? She was appointed not elected.

 

[daylightrobber]

I don't recall her name on a ballot sheet, do you? She was appointed not elected.

Seems a fairly democratic way of doing things.
1 President, 7 Vice-Presidents and 20 Commissioners
A new team of 28 Commissioners (one from each EU Member State) is appointed every five years.

The candidate for President of the Commission is proposed to the European Parliament by the European Council that decides by qualified majority and taking into account the elections to the European Parliament.

The Commission President is then elected by the European Parliament by a majority of its component members (which corresponds to at least 376 out of 751 votes).

Following this election, the President-elect selects the 27 other members of the Commission, on the basis of the suggestions made by Member States. The final list of Commissioners-designate has then to be agreed between the President-elect and the Council. The Commission as a whole needs the Parliament's consent. Prior to this, Commissioners-designate are assessed by the European Parliament committees.

 

[SNova]

For fans of Tony Benn;

 

[chicoazul]

For fans of Tony Benn;

Stay on topic and stop character assassinating mate. Let's debate the issue not the people.

 

[Elong]

Good to see off topic political threads full of xenophobic hate staying open!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm generally not a fan of big government, but in this instance I'll be voting very much to stay in the EU in the referendum because I think there is a much bigger picture at stake here.

There is a growing level of populism rife in Europe at the moment on both the left and the right, and as is common with populism, the one thing they tend to have in common is that they tend to blame foreign entities for the woes of the people.

Now, in my eyes, a major reason for the EU being created was to stop the kind of conflicts that devastated the continent during the 20th century, and so a political movement that seems designed to stoke such conflict has to be stopped. Britain leaving the EU would only add fuel to that particular fire, and it's one that would have very sad consequences for Europe if it was allowed to grow.

So sure, the EU is probably massively inefficient, but I'm not sure the out group are really looking at how our exit will be looked at by every other nation in Europe and the potential repercussions.

 

[oldblue]

For fans of Tony Benn;

Ta. Been watching Will And Testament and happy to watch more Tony. One of his great qualities was humility and he would have loved the fact that many of his admirers disagree with him on this issue. Been drifting between voting to stay in and not feeling I care enough to vote, but some of the stuff on here has convinced me to vote in favour. Not least whoever pointed out that voting against anything Ian Duncan Smith thinks is an opportunity you have to take.
A lot of Tony Benn's views were formed when Social Democracy was strong but now sadly it is the Eu protecting us from many of the excesses of a maverick government. I think Tony is right about accountability but I think this is very different from a more simplistic view of democracy as voting every four or five years.
He mentioned a British constitution, but what is that? If there was such a thing then I'm sure it would have included an NHS completely in public hands, a level of worker's rights, free legal aid available to all citizens, guaranteed standards of living for those unable to work, an independent broadcasting company. But we have a government willing to destroy all of this. The Eu is nowhere near perfect but it could soon be all we have to protect our rights. I'd happily give up my right to put a cross on a ballot paper every five years if certain rights were embedded in law.

 

[edge]

The Portuguese and irish have had a taste of how democratic the EU is if you dont vote there way.
Even if we vote to leave it takes two years and has to be passed by them, as part of the articles when you join up.
If it were just a trading box I would back it, but it goes far deeper and is corrupt.
As for workers rights in practice they have been getting aroded for years the EU hasn't helped other than tinker around the edges.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

We will be utterly screwed if we leave the EU.
Trade will be screwed, the Economy will nosedive and we'll lose all workers/human rights as the Tory Jackboot marches on.
They are already making unconstitutional changes to the Electoral system to keep them in power ad infinitum.

It will be back to a feudal society, slaving for our Tory overlords within a decade.

 

[Ashtonian]

The irony of it all. There has always been an in-out debate over the EU but now we are possibally leaving the ones who will gain the most are the one government who is only being held back due to the red tape currently in place.

I worry just how far the Tories can go when they haven't got the EU restricting what they can and can't do. Perhaps this is the plan all along, feign a interest, back the EU decision, whilst some of the more popular members of the party (Boris Johnson for example) back the out campaign and treat it like a split decision within the government, gain the exit vote that way and sit back and enjoy the results, primes johnson up for the big job as well.

 

[chewee]

If you believe coming out of the EU will have no financial implications just take a look at how the £ has nosedived this morning (On the back of Boris throwing his weight behind No campaign). Also credit rating agency MoodysInvSvc have confirmed they would look to downgrade if we vote to exit EU because "economic costs..outweigh benefits"

Like it or not he is the buffoon polls show he is the most popular politician in the country. His announcement yesterday is significant.