The EU deal

SNova · February 22, 2016

daylightrobber said:
Might be worth noting that Canada have been trying to negotiate a trade deal with the EU for 7 years now. If we leave is there any reason why the UK will transition any more smoothly to a deal that is the most suitable for us?

It seems to me as if the Out campaign should have a solid plan for us to choose to vote for. Details of how long we expect to be treading water for etc. really ought to be available for consideration.

I may be wrong, but in one of the treaties, I believe it states, that nations which leave will be subjected to a two year process of negotiations,two years being the maximum.

daylightrobber · February 22, 2016

SNova said:
I may be wrong, but in one of the treaties, I believe it states, that nations which leave will be subjected to a two year process of negotiations,two years being the maximum.

So in 2 years we will have the best deal for the UK despite it taking at least 7 years for the best deal for Canada. What happens when after 2 years we're miles apart? Who buckles?

peteblue · February 22, 2016

daylightrobber said:
Might be worth noting that Canada have been trying to negotiate a trade deal with the EU for 7 years now. If we leave is there any reason why the UK will transition any more smoothly to a deal that is the most suitable for us?

It seems to me as if the Out campaign should have a solid plan for us to choose to vote for. Details of how long we expect to be treading water for etc. really ought to be available for consideration.

Canada is part of NAFTA and is part of the CETA agreement being negotiated. The UK is already Canada's 3rd most important trading partner after the US and China.....

The UK already has a trading relationship with the EU, we would not just rip it up and start again especially as the EU does more trade with the UK than the UK does with the EU. Germany, especially, would not allow anything to get into the way of a trading relationship with the UK........

peteblue · February 22, 2016

daylightrobber said:
So in 2 years we will have the best deal for the UK despite it taking at least 7 years for the best deal for Canada. What happens when after 2 years we're miles apart? Who buckles?

Always with the negative vibes.......

dandydan · February 22, 2016

Imagine the French government telling their farmers they can't sell to perfidious Albion any more? I'm sure they would be calm and restrained in their response.

roydo · February 22, 2016

peteblue said:
What benefits are these then ? This is what we need, a truthful list of benefits and a truthful lists of benefits being outside of EU control..........

IMO, some benefits are, in no particular order;

Cross continent protection of workers rights, with recourse to a supreme court if flouted.
EU wide tackling of climate change. (Not that arsed about that me, but thats another thread)
Access to the single market. Nissan, for just one, chose to set up in Sunderland because of that.
(Probably) a better negotiating position re trade deals. Your point on us being the 5 th largest, I do have consideration for mind.
Free movement. Yeah, not perfect, but London is what, the 7th largest "French" city, and the growth of the part of London in terms of the skills and stuff they have bought over are great. Dead easy to move to Spain as well!
Reasonably peaceful these last few decades.

Cons? Again, no particular order.
The Euro.
The political elite and sheer waste of cash.
Free movement. Like I said, it does have drawbacks.
Meddling in pretty unimportant stuff.
Red tape.
It is a gravy train, no doubt. (Google MEPs pensions ffs!)
Costs a few bob.

So on balance, for me, the pros are tangible and worthwhile, mainly. But the cons are more irritating than plain bad.

dandydan · February 22, 2016

roydo said:
IMO, some benefits are, in no particular order;

Cross continent protection of workers rights, with recourse to a supreme court if flouted.
EU wide tackling of climate change. (Not that arsed about that me, but thats another thread)
Access to the single market. Nissan, for just one, chose to set up in Sunderland because of that.
(Probably) a better negotiating position re trade deals. Your point on us being the 5 th largest, I do have consideration for mind.
Free movement. Yeah, not perfect, but London is what, the 7th largest "French" city, and the growth of the part of London in terms of the skills and stuff they have bought over are great. Dead easy to move to Spain as well!
Reasonably peaceful these last few decades.

Cons? Again, no particular order.
The Euro.
The political elite and sheer waste of cash.
Free movement. Like I said, it does have drawbacks.
Meddling in pretty unimportant stuff.
Red tape.
It is a gravy train, no doubt. (Google MEPs pensions ffs!)
Costs a few bob.

So on balance, for me, the pros are tangible and worthwhile, mainly. But the cons are more irritating than plain bad.

How much do the directives on carbon emissions add to the average energy bill?

roydo · February 22, 2016

dandydan said:
How much do the directives on carbon emissions add to the average energy bill?

I file that under the "irritants" tab. That was as much to do with Hilary Benn gold plating EU directives when he was energy secretary.

Which is also a nuisance. We seem to take the directives on board, then max out on them. Does my nut. The French way is better! Just ignore the ones they dont like till it goes away.

Groucho · February 22, 2016

To be clear I have not decided my opinion yet - say we come out;

I think some people are under the impression that we will be free of Euro trade regulations. But consider this;

If we want to trade with Eurozone companies/nations, we will still have to abide by EC rules because the organisation we will be trading with has to abide by EC rules. If we refuse to play by their rules, they will not trade with us.

So although we'd be out of Europe, we'd still have to deal with a lot of their 'red tape'.

Whistlin' Dixie · February 22, 2016

roydo said:
The French way is better! Just ignore the ones they dont like till it goes away.

1 million percent this ^^^

The UK is a stickler for abiding by the rules; Whereas the french (and the italians to an extent)...

daylightrobber · February 22, 2016

peteblue said:
Always with the negative vibes.......

I'd just like an on the table plan of how we expect to fare once out. We could also do with knowing who is going to deliver it all, because it sure as hell won't be Cameron.

GwladysBlue · February 22, 2016

The Cllr on Granada just made a great point.

If it is up to Central Government, the distribution of wealth would certainly not be seen up North. Under Europe we have had some great regeneration projects.

I'm voting in.