The Everton Board Thread 2015/16 [ Not takeover related ]

[edge]

Mate of mine emailed a link to WT treatise tonight so I read the big expose.

Yes he has questioned Mr Kenwright's blue credentials, but that is the least of the problems that I have with it.

Have read with growing incredulity the constant claims (without any concrete evidence) that Philip Green owns a percentage of Everton and pulls the strings. Problem is, that under Premier League rules, beneficial owners of above 10% of the club must be declared -Philip Green isn't, so either it's a conspiracy within the club, or, the most likely scenario, Philip Green has no beneficial interest in the club.

If his wife has an investment vehicle called Taveta, the shares would be held by that anyway surely?

The Vibrac/Mousehole/JG Funding/Carroch Holdings/Kirkton Investment structure loans money at a commercial rate to football clubs, not just Everton. The beneficial owner of the structure will probably never be known unless the Corporate Service Providers' offices in both the BVI and IOM are broken into and the MLR and due diligence files on the Companies are stolen. It would be my guess that ownership in the Companies would probably be vested in trust(s), preferably discretionary so no beneficiaries need be listed, and the settlor of the trust could literally be anyone in certain jurisdictions.

These loans are not disclosed as related party transactions in the accounts, so in the absence of that, the conclusion is that the loans come from companies that are in no way related to thr directors and major shareholders of EFC.

Power8 - well, quite frankly there is no excuse for getting involved with the company as a partner in my humble opinion. If I took this company or similar on, I would be looking down tje barrel of prosecution on the Proceeds of Crime Act.

I have said it before and truly believe that in certain respects Watched Toffee has done some good, but should not pass off opinion as fact.

here is the link if anybody wants to read it in full
http://evertonviral.com/

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

I think he is doing a good job of getting issues into the general fans eyes - I dont know if its 100% accurate, but i know alot of pro board people who are questioning things now they never used to.

I just find it absolutely fascinating that we are still using these loans (vibrac et al), yet the TV income is going up and up... Are we really in that much of a [Poor language removed] position that we need a yearly loan to survive? Not like it was used for signings.

Change is needed - either they invest and improve the club, or actually REALLY try to find someone who can... whether its sell or invest, i dont care - the only important thing is that we all agree the aim is the betterment of the club.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

@chazzle_dazzle - what do you think the new loan was used for if not signings? We spent £20m net this window, and most of that will have come from the extended annual loan. Without the incremental TV revenue we'd have not been able to spend that amount net and clear the previous years loan.

 

[nil satis]

I'd go a step further and say with an accusation of that scale it needs to be the thesis of the argument. If you're going to insinuate or accuse Bill Kenwright of being a kopite, it deserves a thorough and reasoned argument thereof. Something along the lines of (and this is not my own opinion, but I digress):

Bill Kenwright is a Kopite.

I know that sounds like the mutterings of a jaded, embittered fan, but there is evidence that suggests this very fact, and coupled with his documented failures as chairman of Everton it becomes a compelling case.

<Present evidence therein>.

It should not be a throwaway accusation precisely because it draws attention away from the actual argument being made. This is why I'm continuously asking the anti-board faction (which I generally stand with if I'm entirely honest) to refrain from ad hominem in general. It muddies the water, when a crystal clear view should be plenty to allow people to make their decision, which in turn I believe would lead to a greater degree of pressure on the board. Kenwright's fandom is not the core problem here - he could be a Kopite, and I wouldn't care if he was leading Everton to glory. He can be the biggest blue in the world and I would (and do) want him out as he fails to plan and envision a future.

This is why @WatchedToffee will not get the traction that some of these arguments deserve - there is too much in the way of opinion and personal conviction and not enough evidence to support his bold claims...mainly because he is focusing on the worst possible truths rather than the actual undeniable truths that should be enough when laid out clearly, concisely and objectively.

VIBRAC et. al. should be questioned - but not in the sense of whether Earl is skimming off the top - in the sense of whether they're necessary or financially prudent for our club. If they are, then we refocus to other issues, if they're not then the argument makes itself.

There are plenty of problems with our board, regardless of their football loyalties or personal lives. @the esk does an admirable job staying on message - we need investment and it doesn't matter whether it's this board stumping money, getting in outside investment, or selling up. Everton need a capital injection and the board has failed to secure it. This is an undeniable fact that carries weight and gravitas. Accusing board members (or shadowy non-board member board members) of all things illicit? That just makes people ignore you as a loon regardless of the truth of your claims simply because they cannot be proven or disproven.

Heard it all now!

 

[marty mcfly]

You know the answer.

Yea I hate to say it but I now think you are right. I will wait for WHP to be confirmed as not going ahead but the signs aren't good.

Kenwright just doesn't want to give up his train set.

 

[edge]

Heard it all now!

not a fan of the Board, but he isnt a Kopite, good fan if nothing else,

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

@chazzle_dazzle - what do you think the new loan was used for if not signings? We spent £20m net this window, and most of that will have come from the extended annual loan. Without the incremental TV revenue we'd have not been able to spend that amount net and clear the previous years loan.

I honestly don't have enough knowings of the dealings to be honest so i couldn't say for certain mate.

Id guess what we spent on cleverly and Deulofeu was, for what its worth the actual money we probably had to spend on players without lending or sales.

We then spent, 9.5 + 4.5 - from reports. so thats £15million. I dont know how much the money on the loan was for, dont think thats public knowledge - like you say its speculated at £20mish.

My main problem is, we are still basically relying on loans to pay loans, to buy players (without selling am sure most of us can now agree on). I dont know where the money went - however it doesnt surprise me that we didnt get linked with more players really until the loan documents got submitted to companies house on the 10th of August.

 

[mikewex]

must be a lot of truth in that watched toffees stuff, as it sort of looks like the club are trying to investigate / find out who it is

They are accusing the club board of some nefarious practices, some of which border on (if not exceed) criminal behaviour, and would at least get some of them struck off as directors. And they are doing it on a Twitter feed with a large number of followers including journalists.

Whatever about the club, I would assume the likes of Philip green are probably looking into them regardless of the truth or otherwise of the issue. Wouldn't you?

 

[Steve Wigan]

There's some book written by/about theatre ponces which includes a reference to a young actor from Merseyside....William Kenwright, complaining that some production didn't use the YNWA dirge.

I gather from the above that you assume that everyone who works in the theatre is a 'ponce', and that it would be wrong for an actor to suggest that a production of the musical Carousel should not exclude the song When You Walk Through A Storm, as the song by Rodgers and Hammestien is a key moment in the production.
Shows us all how much you know.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

^ A classic example of the type of one eyed 'logic' being applied to plenty of the rest of the information being chucked about. It's more a case of take the conclusion you want and work backwards, taking tenuous titbits and adding the appropriate narrative so that they fit the desired conclusion.

 

[Chang Elephant]

I gather from the above that you assume that everyone who works in the theatre is a 'ponce'

Naturally

and that it would be wrong for an actor to suggest that a production of the musical Carousel should not exclude the song When You Walk Through A Storm, as the song by Rodgers and Hammestien is a key moment in the production.
Shows us all how much you know.

Staggering use of misdirection/disinformation there Stevie lad, it's actually impressive how much you and other "fair minded" "reasonable" individuals put out there in defence of Dear Bill. I will direct you to George Best's autobiography, Scoring at Half-time:

'As far as I remember, Bill's ticket (besides plenty of the folding stuff) was his lifelong love of Everton. Therefore imagine my surprise while thumbing through an old book about the making of a famous 1960s play called Zigger Zagger when my eyes fell on the following passage:

three days before the opening Bill Kenwright, a former National Youth Theatre member and avid Liverpool fan, walked in and declared in hurt disbelief: "You have not used the song of the Kop - You'll Never Walk Alone."

Was there another young actor walking around the North-West in the mid-1960s by the name of Bill Kenwright? Had the author got it wrong? Who knows?' (Chapter 2, Page 81)

Nothing to do with Carousel (the play was Zigger Zagger), the author of the book labelled Kenwrong as an avid Liverpool fan, and Best himself felt the need to comment on how much Bill loved money. Bad times old chap.

 

[Chang Elephant]

and here is the original source

Penguin Modern Playwrights –Peter Terson

 

[SerenityNigh]

and here is the original source

Penguin Modern Playwrights –Peter Terson

Interesting, although it's worth noting that sometimes what's written in books should not always be taken at face value:

On Saturdays, they come streaming towards Goodison Park, a parade of blue. Blue scarves, blue hats, blue jerseys, blue jackets. They crowd into pubs – the Thomas Frost, the Brick, the Leigh Arms, the Lisbon – to knock back pints before the match.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Naturally


Staggering use of misdirection/disinformation there Stevie lad, it's actually impressive how much you and other "fair minded" "reasonable" individuals put out there in defence of Dear Bill. I will direct you to George Best's autobiography, Scoring at Half-time:



Nothing to do with Carousel (the play was Zigger Zagger), the author of the book labelled Kenwrong as an avid Liverpool fan, and Best himself felt the need to comment on how much Bill loved money. Bad times old chap.

Check the book of Carousel. And it gets even worse for you. You think Bill is a 'Liverpool Fan' because a ghost written George Best(him of the perfect reputation') tells you so. Oh dear. Zigger Zagger is a play about football supporting schoolkids, performed mostly by children and it would be quite normal for a young actor to ask why a popular 'football anthem' was not included.When I was a kid I used to go to Everton one week and Liverpool(sometimes) on the alternative week. It doesn't make me a 'Liverpool fan'...it makes me a football fan. Come to think of it, I used to go to Tranmere on a Friday night as well. But you wouldn't remember Friday night football at Prenton Park, would you,only being a youngster. I've been to at leasat half of the League grounds in the UK, watching teams other than Everton, so does that make me a Barnsley fan, a Chesterfield fan, a Spurs fan? Wind in your trunk.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Check the book of Carousel. And it gets even worse for you. You think Bill is a 'Liverpool Fan' because a ghost written George Best(him of the perfect reputation') tells you so. Oh dear. Zigger Zagger is a play about football supporting schoolkids, performed mostly by children and it would be quite normal for a young actor to ask why a popular 'football anthem' was not included.When I was a kid I used to go to Everton one week and Liverpool(sometimes) on the alternative week. It doesn't make me a 'Liverpool fan'...it makes me a football fan. Come to think of it, I used to go to Tranmere on a Friday night as well. But you wouldn't remember Friday night football at Prenton Park, would you,only being a youngster. I've been to at leasat half of the League grounds in the UK, watching teams other than Everton, so does that make me a Barnsley fan, a Chesterfield fan, a Spurs fan? Wind in your trunk.

No Steve, the fact that Bill has been attending Goodison for getting on for 60 years, and loved the club enough to want to be part of it, eventually buying nearly a quarter of it, means jack.

Gerge Bests ghost writer said he was a red so it'd definitive proof mate.

It how it works with the small contingent of professional Kenwright haters who've been plying their trade for a decade or so.....