The Everton Board Thread 2015/16 [ Not takeover related ]

[The Esk]

BCR Sports did not pay £16 million for the 8,146 shares they acquired.

The reported figure was estimated at £1200 a share, giving a total cost of approximately £9.775 million.

 

[Woolly Blue]

If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck...good chance its a duck...

It might be a small goose though ?

More seriously, good luck for tomorrow, and hopefully you'll be fighting fit very soon.

 

[Billyliar9]

It might be a small goose though ?

More seriously, good luck for tomorrow, and hopefully you'll be fighting fit very soon.

Thanks mate..appreciate it...coybs.

 

[The Esk]

Thanks mate..appreciate it...coybs.

Yes just endorse what Woolly said. Good luck tomorrow mate.

 

[Billyliar9]

Yes just endorse what Woolly said. Good luck tomorrow mate.

Cheers mate..i,ll get in touch when i,m back up and running ...

 

[The Esk]

Yesterday in the Takeover thread you mentioned that Green had paid Gregg directly for his shares. Are you talking about Anita Gregg? As far as I understood it. Bill initially borrowed £7 million from Anita Gregg for his stake in True Blue Holdings. When the in-fighting began and Bill was attempting to gain full control he obviously had to payback Anita. Are you saying that Green paid Anita the £7 Million?

Also at the same time as this, up stepped Robert Earl and as I understand it he was the one who paid for Paul and Anita's shareholding (23%) held by BCR sports. Bill also at this time upped his shareholding by some 10% to become the majority shareholder and so gain control.

In order to do that Bill would have had to stump up approx £7 million to increase his shareholding, along with the £7 million owed to Anita Gregg for his initial stake in true blue holdings. That's £14 million he would have had to find. AFAIK he was as poor as a church mouse at the time.

So do the maths and you find that Bill has somehow managed to get his hands on £14 million and BCR sports buys 23% of the shares for approx £16 million.

£14 million + £16 million = £30 million in total.

Didn't you quote Phil Green as saying that he gave Bill Kenwright £30 million? hmmmmm!

Sorry one last thing on this, with regards to Bill Kenwright's purchases.

He acquired the equivalent of 8, 195 Everton shares through TBH in 2000 at a cost of £857 a share. Total cost: £7 million (funded by Anita Gregg).

In December 2004 TBH went into voluntary liquidation and holdings were transferred into direct ownership, Bill's holdings had increased by 559 shares to 8,754. Even at £2,000 a share the increase would have cost little more than £1.1 million and was probably less.

Therefore Bill's total acquisition costs could have been no more than a little over £8.1 million.

So we have Bill in for £8.1 million and BCR Sports in for £9.775 million.

That's a long way from the £30 million figure suggested here and in various articles.

 

[magicjuan]

Thats correct, but the payment for Greggs shares..ie Paul, for BCR was in fact paid for direct from Green..but the maths is right.

Would there be less tax due on a 'holding' in EFC than in Arcadia, i.e. funds not on Arcadia's balance sheet? Creative accountancy perhaps?

 

[joey_macmo]

Sorry one last thing on this, with regards to Bill Kenwright's purchases.

He acquired the equivalent of 8, 195 Everton shares through TBH in 2000 at a cost of £857 a share. Total cost: £7 million (funded by Anita Gregg).

In December 2004 TBH went into voluntary liquidation and holdings were transferred into direct ownership, Bill's holdings had increased by 559 shares to 8,754. Even at £2,000 a share the increase would have cost little more than £1.1 million and was probably less.

Therefore Bill's total acquisition costs could have been no more than a little over £8.1 million.

So we have Bill in for £8.1 million and BCR Sports in for £9.775 million.

That's a long way from the £30 million figure suggested here and in various articles.

Your figures are correct But the figure was suggested by Phillip green himself not just in "various articles"

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

BCR Sports did not pay £16 million for the 8,146 shares they acquired.

The reported figure was estimated at £1200 a share, giving a total cost of approximately £9.775 million.

reported, estimated eh! All a bit murky - can anyone provide evidence of exactly how much those shares were actually traded for?

 

[The Esk]

Your figures are correct But the figure was suggested by Phillip green himself not just in "various articles"

Absolutely and I think you will find that the £30 million he speaks of was only a letter of credit at most, not a cash payment. Through Bank of Scotland TBH arranged a secured facility of £30 million using Everton's shares as collateral. That facility according to TBH and Everton accounts was never drawn down.

I accept Bill had to find funding from somewhere (probably Green) and Earl similarly to pay Gregg.

However the figures are significantly different from what most assume to be true.

 

[The Esk]

reported, estimated eh! All a bit murky - can anyone provide evidence of exactly how much those shares were actually traded for?

I will see if Blankstone Sington can give me a chart of Everton's share prices. The figures I used have come from the comprehensive histories of Everton's shares published on both ToffeeWeb and the EFCSA.

I consider them both to be reliable sources.

 

[Chang Elephant]

I accept Bill had to find funding from somewhere (probably Green) and Earl similarly to pay Gregg.

In which case:
1) How has Bill repaid that debt/has he ?
2) Why would a wealthy individual like Earl need Green to buy his shares for him ?

 

[roydo]

In which case:
1) How has Bill repaid that debt/has he ?
2) Why would a wealthy individual like Earl need Green to buy his shares for him ?

Late to this, so best to ignore me really.

But, at a guess;

1. On disposal.
2. Cash flow.

Or just cos he was mates with them?

It is all relative, these figures, isnt it? Like, if a mate of mine asked me to help him out for a few hundred quid, I would. Chris Evans gave Danny Baker £30k, no strings, when Baker was ill a while back.]

To a billionaire, £30m or £12m or whatever it was or wasnt, is not that that much cash is it?

Naive? Me? Probably.

 

[hibbo'sclass]

@The Esk and anyone else who is interested. This is what it looks like from the public record and my understanding of the filed documents. Shoot me down if you wish.

7597 of Bk's shares are held in Bill Kenwright 1878 Limited at a cost of £7,760,223 per the accounts filed with Companies House.
His total holding is 9,044 from memory, none of which are related to TBH as the shares from TBH went into Bill Kenwright Blue Limited, which was liquidated, the assets being transferred to Bill Kenwright 1878 Limited. It is possible that the cost is skewed in this company as the cost may include liquidators fees for BK Blue Limited. What we do know is the last tranche of 290 shares bought by 1878 Ltd cost 300,000 exactly.
That leaves 1447 shares acquired by him personally or by other methods (possibly SIPS?), none of which have been acquired since 2006 from memory.
Given that 7597 shares cost an average of 1021.48 each, and he is unlikely to have paid more than this for earlier shares, I would be surprised if the 1447 shares cost anything more than 1,478,089 giving a spend of £9,238,312 for his shareholding, probably substantially less.

 

[Woolly Blue]

In which case:
1) How has Bill repaid that debt/has he ?
2) Why would a wealthy individual like Earl need Green to buy his shares for him ?

On (2), I have no idea

On (1), you can download all of Bill's company accounts from the interweb. I could post the details, but it's good for people to do their own research ! Theoretically, he could have used the salary and divis he's paid himself over the years to pay at least some of that ( lets say theoretical ) debt off from that. Whether or not he has, again, I have no idea.