The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[kenada_blue]

Here's the thing, though: a couple of global giants in Europe fall foul of UEFA's rules and get barred from the trough marked 'Champions League pot'. There'll be an almighty hue and cry and they'll form a breakaway continental league and wish those left behind all the best but they'll crack on from there. Even if it was just, say, Inter + Chelsea and they invited 'second tier' clubs like Valencia, Ajax, whoever...that'd be enough to devalue the CL, and there's not an awful lot the European Union can do about it. In other words, there really is no deterrent to overshooting spending/income limits. Ultimately it'd lead to the diluition of UEFA's powers if they forced the issue.

Could also lead Chelsea etc in administration or into a financial melt down as many clubs rely on champos league money.

How come the EU aren't clamping down on the prize money, endorsements and sponsors that make UEFA hundreds of millions each year?

 

[manxtoffee]

UEFA will have the backing of the EC, hence they will have the power to take directive action. How many clubs do think will take the on the might of EC in a EC Supreme Court? Besides this; Top tier European competitions played in the desert or a jungle is hardly gonna work is it?

 

[davek]

UEFA will have the backing of the EC, hence they will have the power to take directive action. How many clubs do think will take the on the might of EC in a EC Supreme Court? Besides this; Top tier European competitions played in the desert or a jungle is hardly gonna work is it?

The European Union are powerless to stop a breakaway alternative to the CL. How could they not be? It'd trample through their own anti-monopoly ideology. I'd like to hear of the scenario where Brussels stepped in to tell football clubs they must adhere to a cartel called the Champaions League.

 

[davek]

Could also lead Chelsea etc in administration or into a financial melt down as many clubs rely on champos league money.

How come the EU aren't clamping down on the prize money, endorsements and sponsors that make UEFA hundreds of millions each year?

Exactly. It's a smokescreen for the continuation of the concentration of power in the game. If they wanted to increase competition then why is the Europa League funded with a fraction of the money tipping into the CL?

Financial Fairplay = fig leaf.

 

[manxtoffee]

The European Union are powerless to stop a breakaway alternative to the CL. How could they not be? It'd trample through their own anti-monopoly ideology. I'd like to hear of the scenario where Brussels stepped in to tell football clubs they must adhere to a cartel called the Champions League.

What makes you think all the member associations will agree to a break-away so called cartel? For a start UEFA could pressure the national associations to omit teams membership status from their competitions, hence no premiership, La Liga, Serie A and so on... It wouldn't stand a chance and before you go on, just take a look at the recent goings on at FIFA and you'll see how much clout the so called smaller associations have actually got. That's without getting the brussels juggernauts involved..

Besides banning the english in the Eighties; Didn't UEFA make some italian club side play behind closed doors a couple of years ago? I'm just wondering like..

 

[Matt Damon]

You dont understand it. The rules allow for a period of grace and wont be assessed fully until the end of the 2013/14 season. Besides that, loopholes are fully admitted to be there by UEFA concerning clubs getting around the issue of income generation through greater 'sponsorship'.

In short: dont hold your breath that this changes anything. If it did threaten the status quo the mega clubs in Europe would have dumped UEFA and gone it alone.

Oh come on Dave.

Don't turn this thread into the usual. I bet you've never even been to Brussels. Let alone be able to comment on this.

The EU's position is that it doesn't wish to legislate. It wants to see UEFA get the house in order. But it's not ruled out the possibility of legislating if this doesn't work as they intend. They'll do a three year review in 2016, then you'll see what the EC will do if this isn't having the effect it should be.

There's no escape. Why fight it Dave?

 

[davek]

What makes you think all the member associations will agree to a break-away so called cartel. For a start UEFA could pressure the national associations to omit teams membership status from their competitions, hence no premiership, La Liga, Serie A and so on... It wouldn't stand a chance and before you go on, just take a look at the recent goings on at FIFA and you'll see how much clout the so called smaller associations have actually got. That's without getting the brussels juggernauts involved..

Besides banning the english in the Eighties; Didn't UEFA make some italian club side play behind closed doors a couple of years ago? I'm just wondering like..

If you say it real quick all that sounds plausible. But if you think about the consequences of those actions: one of the big three Chelsea/Arsenal/United fall foul of UEFA and decide to create a new Euro-league with other mega-rich clubs...are the PL going to throw them out of domestic competition where they generate a couple of £billion p.a. for them just to keep that governing body happy on the off chance the FA will be given a future European Championship to host? No chance. And the European Union cant step into the fray and legislate against private companies creating an alternative to the monopoly of the CL, thereby restricting fair trade.

I say again, I'd like to see any evidence suggesting the EU could and would act in such a fashion.

There's no fangs to this Financial Fairplay, none at all when push comes to shove.

 

[Matt Damon]

If you say it real quick all that sounds plausible. But if you think about the consequences of those actions: one of the big three Chelsea/Arsenal/United fall foul of UEFA and decide to create a new Euro-league with other mega-rich clubs...are the PL going to throw them out of domestic competition where they generate a couple of £billion p.a. for them just to keep that governing body happy on the off chance the FA will be given a future European Championship to host? No chance. And the European Union cant step into the fray and legislate against private companies creating an alternative to the monopoly of the CL, thereby restricting fair trade.

I say again, I'd like to see any evidence suggesting the EU could and would act in such a fashion.

There's no fangs to this Financial Fairplay, none at all when push comes to shove.

Dave. AS PER USUAL you've missed the point. They can and they would since the break away clubs are mounting unsustainable debts. They're also acting contrary to the public good. (The whole point of the Financial Fair play regs, to remedy this). So, if this "lack of teeth" regulation from UEFA doesn't have the desired effect, they'd legislate for a positive sociological effect. i.e. football clubs without huge debts.

Hence they'd view it as needing "Regulating". Then introduce regulations from the European Parliament.

Really Dave. Why fight the inevitable?

 

[davek]

Oh come on Dave.

Don't turn this thread into the usual. I bet you've never even been to Brussels. Let alone be able to comment on this.

The EU's position is that it doesn't wish to legislate. It wants to see UEFA get the house in order. But it's not ruled out the possibility of legislating if this doesn't work as they intend. They'll do a three year review in 2016, then you'll see what the EC will do if this isn't having the effect it should be.

There's no escape. Why fight it Dave?

Lol! That's a complete nonsense. The EC has merely committed to encouraging the taking up of financial fairplay/anti-corruption/illegal betting. Their views on fairness and sport go back decades to the Treaty of Rome and the 'European Sports Model'. But feel free to point me in the direction of their new position whereby they state that punitive measures will be taken against errant football clubs not complying with UEFA!!

 

[Matt Damon]

Lol! That's a complete nonsense. The EC has merely committed to encouraging the taking up of financial fairplay/anti-corruption/illegal betting. Their views on fairness and sport go back decades to the Treaty of Rome and the 'European Sports Model'. But feel free to point me in the direction of their new position whereby they state that punitive measures will be taken against errant football clubs not complying with UEFA!!

The mandate comes from the Lisbon Treaty of 2009. Article 165.

But that's just the latest. That's not legislation they could introduce, it just gives the mandate of the member states for the EC to begin influencing sports related policy.

The EU through white papers will review the impact of this, and this does not rule out future legislation.

That's the teeth you so often claim it doesn't have. Its cajoling and implied threat of legislation that's made UEFA sit up and take notice.

 

[davek]

The mandate comes from the Lisbon Treaty of 2009. Article 165.

But that's just the latest. That's not legislation they could introduce, it just gives the mandate of the member states for the EC to begin influencing sports related policy.

The EU through white papers will review the impact of this, and this does not rule out future legislation.

That's the teeth you so often claim it doesn't have. Its cajoling and implied threat of legislation that's made UEFA sit up and take notice.

That's right, you couldn't find the evidence.

Endex/

 

[Matt Damon]

That's right, you couldn't find the evidence.

Endex/

Dave. We could get into the usual to-and-froing.

However there's really no need. You'll be proved to be as wrong as the oft quoted "Everton are going into administration" piece

 

[SweetJesus849]

Would anybody follow a model based on the NFL, were it implemented? Just out of interest.

I personally agree with Dave here, the new regulations being brought in simply do not do the job. Granted, it's just the beginning but I don't think they go far enough, or if they are trying to regulate spending, then they're going the wrong way about it.

 

[davek]

Dave. We could get into the usual to-and-froing.

However there's really no need. You'll be proved to be as wrong as the oft quoted "Everton are going into administration" piece

Poor Matt - always overstretching and failing to deliver the goods.

So, we 'have to wait and see' now? Well, unless the European Commission add some teeth to their pronouncements we have to assume it'll end up as expected - UEFA allowing a very flexible definition of 'revenue' generation to hold sway and every usual overspending club is happy to go along with it.

More holes than swiss cheese.

 

[SweetJesus849]

To be honest mate I get what Davek is on about, and to a point he is correct. However, the tide is slowly turning. The regulations won't have the radical effect as one would hope, but most would agree it's a step in the right direction at least.

I'll give that to be fair, at least they're doing something, it took them long enough but I just don't think they go far enough for me, I can't really see anything changing.