The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[Chang Elephant]

Ad hominem always works, especially when you have nothing substantive to say

You want substantive :

1) Fabricated incoming investment and scammed a shareholders AGM with a talk from a false prospective investor, Samuelson, later acknowledged as a "means to an end"

2) Clearly lied to all project partners, the media, and fans, that the £30M minimal investment required for the Kings Dock was "ringfenced"

3) Quite likely encouraged media vilification of Paul Gregg to force him off the board (badly done to first family in The Echo ffs)

4) Encouraged media manipulation of the fanbase and vilification of certain fan groups (see Ross's email leaks)

5) Skewed a fans vote on moving to Kirkby by utter bull about the stadium being world class and effectively free

6) Replaces Gregg with the introduction of well known football enthusiast and serial bankrupt, Robert Earl who has offices in the BVI

7) Allows the club to take loans from Vibrac based in the BVI (owners/directors not disclosable)

8) Alleges he has no idea on the composition of Other Operating Costs

9) Sold Rooney at well below market value at a time he had tolerated the club being riddled with Proactive shareholders (even the Chief Exec)

Why the trust and belief ?

 

[Tommy Chong]

Goats link to the accounts is good. I'll have to dig further later into the specific accusations of Gregg and Green and VIBRAC, and all that other stuff, but your inability to present any evidence of wrongdoing beyond those keywords as compared to @Foot Long Hot Dog and @the esk 's points doesn't give me much hope that it'll be anything more than circumstantial evidence.

Pretty much this... Unless the club elect to add an annexure to the end of the next statement of accounts detailing other operating costs, it's all speculation, I'm afraid...

 

[Chang Elephant]

Goats link to the accounts is good. I'll have to dig further later into the specific accusations of Gregg and Green and VIBRAC, and all that other stuff, but your inability to present any evidence of wrongdoing beyond those keywords as compared to @Foot Long Hot Dog and @the esk 's points doesn't give me much hope that it'll be anything more than circumstantial evidence.

Unfortunately, If those are the only keywords it doesn't give me much hope that you are interested in solving this problem.

Like you I'm even handed and not one to criticise Kenwright for the sake of it, but what about "Ringfenced", "Samuelson", "Ross emails" "effectively free" "Proactive" ?

 

[SerenityNigh]

You want substantive :

1) Fabricated incoming investment and scammed a shareholders AGM with a talk from a false prospective investor, Samuelson, later acknowledged as a "means to an end"

2) Clearly lied to all project partners, the media, and fans, that the £30M minimal investment required for the Kings Dock was "ringfenced"

3) Quite likely encouraged media vilification of Paul Gregg to force him off the board (badly done to first family in The Echo ffs)

4) Encouraged media manipulation of the fanbase and vilification of certain fan groups (see Ross's email leaks)

5) Skewed a fans vote on moving to Kirkby by utter bull about the stadium being world class and effectively free

6) Replaces Gregg with the introduction of well known football enthusiast and serial bankrupt, Robert Earl who has offices in the BVI

7) Allows the club to take loans from Vibrac based in the BVI (owners/directors not disclosable)

8) Alleges he has no idea on the composition of Other Operating Costs

9) Sold Rooney at well below market value at a time he had tolerated the club being riddled with Proactive shareholders (even the Chief Exec)

Why the trust and belief ?

Are you conflating this with OOC? I can run through the list of every club, but I don't think I have the time for such. In short, every club reports something similar to Everton's "Other Operating Costs." This is a legitimate booking and is separate from Exceptional items. It's harder to track down the costs related to Chelsea and West Ham (since these are actually broken down, and much of the costs are amortized normal expenses), and some clubs don't keep their audits in easily accessible places (so therefore the short list below), but let's not lose sight of the forest by staring at the tree. You don't know what £21M in OOC is? Ok, that's fine. Are you suggesting these are illegitimate costs? The evidence suggests contrary. That's a good list by @the esk, take a look at that. Take a gander at the Chelsea or West Ham reports and see what they're spending it on.

MCFC reported "other external charges" of £42,280,000 in 2012/13
MUFC reported "other operating expenses" of £66,983,000 in 2011/12
Arsenal report "Other operating charges" of £61,559,000 in 2012/2013
Spurs report "Other operating costs" of £27,912,000 in 2012/2013
Everton report OOC of £21M? I can't be arsed to worry about this.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Unfortunately, If those are the only keywords it doesn't give me much hope that you are interested in solving this problem.

Like you I'm even handed and not one to criticise Kenwright for the sake of it, but what about "Ringfenced", "Samuelson", "Ross emails" "effectively free" "Proactive" ?

Ross Emails is another good one. And maybe Samuelson.

Ringfenced and effectively free don't bother me. The man was trying to sell the fans and media on his new stadium plans. That's not illegal. He's not the best football chairman from a business perspective. We know that. It's pretty much fact.

I'm interested in whether there is anything honestly underhanded going on, marketing a harebrained scheme isn't underhanded, it's marketing a harebrained scheme. It can be done in earnest.

Searching for Proactive is...erm...silly, it's a common business word, regardless of how it's used it can be used properly.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Well, just about saved the cutlets and they were beautiful, with some nice mash and peas and onion gravy, and a bottle of Spitfire, lovely. Now, the Daily Telegraph link...

tell you what..just google it..Daily Telegraph ..the financial health of the premier League laid bare. Basically 'other operating costs/other costs include the following and some other costs..
general running costs e.g
lighting
heating
food
travel
auditing
legal and agents fees etc.

Next, I'll try to find the old link which compared other operating costs of each Premier League club. From what I remember I think the Everton figure was not out of the ordinary. Just finishing my bottle of Spitfire...

...and looking at a post just up from this...Serenity has rather nailed that one. Surely the end of the bull about OOC from the usuals ?

 

[Sharpys top lip]

I didn't. Some time ago I said that Everton gave more details of OOC than many other clubs. It was Elstone, I think who said this initially, and maybe, he may have broken the figure down a little. surely you don't want every paper clip purchase accounted for individually? The accounts would take an age and cost a fortune to get out.The accountants will of course have a list of the figures that are included in the overall OOC figure. And the accounts are signed off every year.

You talk about having a serious conversation about this, then post crap like that. There's a little difference in a paper clip an a hundred million pound over 4/5 years.

 

[Steve Wigan]

@Steve Wigan

I did....

Now your confusing me. What on earth do you mean ?

 

[Steve Wigan]

You talk about having a serious conversation about this, then post crap like that. There's a little difference in a paper clip an a hundred million pound over 4/5 years.

Oh I see. My god you're struggling more than Mr Elephant. The paper clip(!!) was symbolic of the many small items that would be included in a complete breakdown of the OOC figure. I think most people will have understood that. It would probably be included in stationery. Step back and take a breather.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Well, just about saved the cutlets and they were beautiful, with some nice mash and peas and onion gravy, and a bottle of Spitfire, lovely. Now, the Daily Telegraph link...

tell you what..just google it..Daily Telegraph ..the financial health of the premier League laid bare.

No I've read it and am still struggling to see anything relating to detail on EFC OOC's. Did you have space cake with those cutlets ?

 

[The Esk]

I posted this earlier, hope it helps:

Based on my own experience and thinking what is involved in running a football club, other operating costs:

Outsourcing costs
Licensing costs - FA, EUFA
Security and policing
Communication Costs
Marketing costs
Ticketing and ticketing administration
Stadium costs
Property or equipment rental charges
IT costs
Cost of raw materials and supplies that cannot be held in inventory (i.e. water, energy, small items of equipment, maintenance-related items, administrative supplies, etc.)
Maintenance and repair work
Insurance premiums
Scouting costs
External personnel charges
Fees payable to intermediaries and professional expenses
Advertising costs
Staff food and beverage costs
Transportation charges
Travel expenses
Cost of meetings, Award evenings and other receptions
Postal charges, bank charges (i.e. not interest on bank loans)

 

[Sharpys top lip]

Oh I see. My god you're struggling more than Mr Elephant. The paper clip(!!) was symbolic of the many small items that would be included in a complete breakdown of the OOC figure. I think most people will have understood that. It would probably be included in stationery. Step back and take a breather.

I did understand that, but a few sub headings for start would help. I'm sure most simpletons would have understand that.

Maybe up should go an have a lie down. Using your Superior intellect is making you very sleepy....

 

[SerenityNigh]

This thread is like groundhog day. I must have read the same arguments about 100 times. Don't think I'll be opening it again.

This is an excellent response, likely applicable in every corner of GOT

 

[toffee matt]

This is an excellent response, likely applicable in every corner of GOT

Mainly this thread though which is basically a giant mud slinging match between Steve wigan and various other users

 

[Chang Elephant]

I posted this earlier, hope it helps:

Based on my own experience and thinking what is involved in running a football club, other operating costs:

Don't think there's going to be much contention over what the headings can be....more interest in what Everton have "allocated" against each heading.....and following on from that whether the allocations seem plausible and why the sudden jump in their overall total ?

What's your call on a fellow business owner (well circa 25% for Bill) and a chairman not having an absolute scooby what's in there ?