The Friedkin Group - Dan & Ryan Friedkin

[Zatara]

What experience is that then? Because it looks to me like you've got zilch

Even a US lawyer @Hellerad who works in the field said you got it wrong

Not really sure why you're blatantly masquerading as someone working in any relevant financial field to the discussion.

Its transparent. You have a guess (as we all do) and wont deviate from that.

I on the other hand am quite happy to take @Hellerad at face value and of course its quite clear that IF the capital used in the loan has been obtained fraudulently red flags will emerge.

Due diligence will have been undertaken on 777 and the origin of funds (standard practice). Two entities dont simply enter this type of relationship without those questions being asked and documents provided.

I've posted my opinion which is as close to the post people are linking from the person on twitter which doesnt seem to be a coincidence -- its the most realistic and likely outcome based on all of the evidence.

It’s not challenging. They paid those debts off to enter exclusivity but also leapfrogged the 777 debt. They have security.

They don’t believe Acap is in a position to wait for their money and wanted to restructure (not refinance, restructure) that debt.

Again, if they felt the club was worth 850 or a billion, the deal would have closed regardless of the 777 debt, there would be no leverage issues with the PL

I’ll just end it here. Whatever the issue with 777, they didn’t feel it was worth the risk to move forward.

I believe your thinking has changed a little bit.

1: Yes they paid the debts to enter exclusivity. They were aware of ALL of the debts with 777, MSP, B&D + R&M.

Therefore they knew the numbers & their valuation of the club and proceeded with the MSP & B&D payments to enter exclusivity.


2: If they believed ACAP needed the loan paid off asap, then were willing to walk away from the deal purely based upon that not being the case...there is a possibility that may be true and you could well be correct.

However, if they were so confident about this (confident enough to pay £200mil+ to MSP, B&D + Moshiri) then it would make them overly confident which I dont believe a company like that would typically be at least without clear knowledge of the situation and agreement terms.

I think thats fair. The caveat being that as you say they do have security against the stadium.

But it still doesnt add up that they would proceed in this manner...unless it was the first move and (as with Roma) they and Everton were and are calling ACAPs bluff.

Again that may be the case, does it seem likely? Looking at this conservatively, I dont believe so.


3: The club will be worth £850mil - £1billion (excluding debt) once the stadium is built. Thats what I believe, impossible to prove at this stage of course.

Clearly theres substantial room there to get the deal done and as you say (and i agree with) based on the numbers alone the deal would be completed.

4: From my understanding, you believe that if ACAP had indeed wanted the loan paid promptly there was an even greater opportunity for TFG to profit from the deal. Without that they have pulled away.

I believe that they wanted to restructure all remaining debts once the stadium was completed -- thus not using any additional capital of their own to proceed with your suggestion (or simply paying off that 777 debt).

We have different views, both possible. It appears to me that B&D with Dell or VICI based on what we know about their proposals would get this over the line if i am right.

Lets see

 

[Bristol Blue]

No owner
New kit is made out of candy floss
Can't beat an Irish minnow
New stadium next season.

New Everton era

You forgot to add Tarks has an injury. You know things are bad when that happens

 

[Zatara]

They may see the buying out of MSP as a good investment. Hefty interest to get a good return regardless, stops MSP swooping in to gain half the club and should things go south they've got first dibs to buy on the cheap.

Its a win for the club if the terms are lower then MSP + B&D.

NOT one person on this site has a clue what's going on, all guess work by the doom and gloom merchants

Im guessing but i think its good news

 

[davek]

Well Dave
Some of us just want the moshiri era over
And will pin are hopes on anything resembling that another dark day for the club

The I told ya so’s are so kopite it’s sad
Enjoy ya Moment flower hope there worth it

I take no joy from it.

We need sorting out.

My main point is that there were actually people out there - self-titled 'experts' - who gave this 'takeover' credence and talked up the 'serious' nature of the Friedkin lot.

Be on your guard, because these people will likely throw in with the next vampires looking to do a deal on the cheap for the sake of doing a quick deal and 'saving the club'.

 

[Nealroy]

Does Moshiri actually want to sell yet??

Or is he just stringing buyers on, getting them to front operating costs with 'investment' (so he doesn't have to) and then converting them to loans when he doesn't come through?

It seems far fetched that serious business people would keep being taken in, but the deals keep collapsing and every time they've lent us money whilst in negotiations?

Smacks of Moshiri just wanting to keep us and the stadium alive until its complete (when perhaps we are worth more)?

 

[vintage-toffees]

I take no joy from it.

We need sorting out.

My main point is that there were actually people out there - self-titled 'experts' - who gave this 'takeover' credence and talked up the 'serious' nature of the Friedkin lot.

Be on your guard, because these people will likely throw in with the next vampires for sake of doing a quick deal.

Then don’t do it Dave
People are miserable enough today without the I told you so
If ya don’t enjoy doing don’t do it no points are scored all it does is pile more on people who are miserable enough today
I’ve supported your right to opinions be them in agreement or no agreement

But William hill wouldn’t have given odds on you appearing today with a I told ya so post

 

[RomanReigns]

It’s the hope that kills you

 

[Damo_1878]

Not really sure why you're blatantly masquerading as someone working in any relevant financial field to the discussion.

Its transparent. You have a guess (as we all do) and wont deviate from that.

I on the other hand am quite happy to take @Hellerad at face value and of course its quite clear that IF the capital used in the loan has been obtained fraudulently red flags will emerge.

Due diligence will have been undertaken on 777 and the origin of funds (standard practice). Two entities dont simply enter this type of relationship without those questions being asked and documents provided.

I've posted my opinion which is as close to the post people are linking from the person on twitter which doesnt seem to be a coincidence -- its the most realistic and likely outcome based on all of the evidence.



I believe your thinking has changed a little bit.

1: Yes they paid the debts to enter exclusivity. They were aware of ALL of the debts with 777, MSP, B&D + R&M.

Therefore they knew the numbers & their valuation of the club and proceeded with the MSP & B&D payments to enter exclusivity.


2: If they believed ACAP needed the loan paid off asap, then were willing to walk away from the deal purely based upon that not being the case...there is a possibility that may be true and you could well be correct.

However, if they were so confident about this (confident enough to pay £200mil+ to MSP, B&D + Moshiri) then it would make them overly confident which I dont believe a company like that would typically be at least without clear knowledge of the situation and agreement terms.

I think thats fair. The caveat being that as you say they do have security against the stadium.

But it still doesnt add up that they would proceed in this manner...unless it was the first move and (as with Roma) they and Everton were and are calling ACAPs bluff.

Again that may be the case, does it seem likely? Looking at this conservatively, I dont believe so.


3: The club will be worth £850mil - £1billion (excluding debt) once the stadium is built. Thats what I believe, impossible to prove at this stage of course.

Clearly theres substantial room there to get the deal done and as you say (and i agree with) based on the numbers alone the deal would be completed.

4: From my understanding, you believe that if ACAP had indeed wanted the loan paid promptly there was an even greater opportunity for TFG to profit from the deal. Without that they have pulled away.

I believe that they wanted to restructure all remaining debts once the stadium was completed -- thus not using any additional capital of their own to proceed with your suggestion (or simply paying off that 777 debt).

We have different views, both possible. It appears to me that B&D with Dell or VICI based on what we know about their proposals would get this over the line if i am right.

Lets see

@Zatara you have zero clue.

You've been told multiple times by @pfim but you're completely away with the fairies

Its basically the club isn't worth what some are claiming. The debt situation with ACAP (who are the ultimate source of the debt) is a mess. With added liability issues as a consequence.

Moshiri still wants money for his shares

You can try spinning it any way you want thats the situation. Its a mess.

 

[davek]

Then don’t do it Dave
People are miserable enough today without the I told you so
If ya don’t enjoy doing don’t do it no points are scored all it does is pile more on people who are miserable enough today
I’ve supported your right to opinions be them in agreement or no agreement

But William hill wouldn’t have given odds on you appearing today with a I told ya so post

There's absolutely no need for misery. Today was the day when a bunch of chancers finally admitted they weren't serious buyers.

Now they're out the way we can see who REALLY wants to invest in the exciting future of a blue chip English club.

Just be thankful that the Friedkin spivs didn't have the wherewithal to snag us and bury us in their stable of pony clubs.

 

[goldfinchmule]

Club shop should be selling pinata of moshiris face,make a fortune.

 

[vintage-toffees]

There's absolutely no need for misery. Today was the day when a bunch of chancers finally admitted they weren't serious buyers.

Now they're out the way we can see who REALLY wants to invest in an exciting future of a blue chip English club.

Just be thankful that Friedkin spivs didn't have the wherewithal to snag us and bury us in their stable of pony clubs.

Doesn’t excuse the I told ya so routine though does it

 

[Zatara]

Does Moshiri actually want to sell yet??

Or is he just stringing buyers on, getting them to front operating costs with 'investment' (so he doesn't have to) and then converting them to loans when he doesn't come through?

It seems far fetched that serious business people would keep being taken in, but the deals keep collapsing and every time they've lent us money whilst in negotiations?

Smacks of Moshiri just wanting to keep us and the stadium alive until its complete (when perhaps we are worth more)?

I posted that selling (when the deal with 777 was being discussed) made no sense at all.

Moshiri is taking an epic loss on his investment on these deals.

If he holds onto the club until the stadium is completed, he can restructure at low interest.

If he's able to play musical chairs with the B&D + MSP by bringing in TFG then it could be a masterstroke my Moshiri

Lets not forget either that initially he was only looking for investors....not to sell.

It would be hilarious if someone came in to buy and ended up paying off 777.

I think stadium completion is in December so only 5 months away.

 

[MikeH72]

Does Moshiri actually want to sell yet??

Or is he just stringing buyers on, getting them to front operating costs with 'investment' (so he doesn't have to) and then converting them to loans when he doesn't come through?

It seems far fetched that serious business people would keep being taken in, but the deals keep collapsing and every time they've lent us money whilst in negotiations?

Smacks of Moshiri just wanting to keep us and the stadium alive until its complete (when perhaps we are worth more)?

I think you’re giving him way too much credit. He is far too thick to even think of that let alone pull it off successfully.

 

[Damo_1878]

I posted that selling (when the deal with 777 was being discussed) made no sense at all.

Moshiri is taking an epic loss on his investment on these deals.

If he holds onto the club until the stadium is completed, he can restructure at low interest.

If he's able to play musical chairs with the B&D + MSP by bringing in TFG then it could be a masterstroke my Moshiri

Lets not forget either that initially he was only looking for investors....not to sell.

It would be hilarious if someone came in to buy and ended up paying off 777.

I think stadium completion is in December so only 5 months away.

Matt Slater at The Athletic believes there is £50 million left to fund to fit out the stadium

 

[RomanReigns]

I know Tim Cahill is hiding a Qatari billionaire somewhere