The GOT Book Club

[dholliday]

You've shifted the goalposts massively.

goal's in the same position, just defended by German goalies.

My statements were:

that neo-nazis have a foothold in Germany - they do

No, they don't. In my earlier posts i said why they don't. You'd do well to tackle them.

that the east of the country is the hub of far right and neo-nazis political group and parties - it is.

See above.

that far right parties like the AfD

AfD is not far-right. It's narratively-portrayed as far-right by a worried establishment. See previous comments for detail on this. Feel free to discuss specifics.

have marched with more extreme nazi groups - they have

Source? Still waiting.

their resurrection of ethnic-nationalism

Source? AfD support migration of folk from all over the world, as long as qualified and/or genuinely refugee.

through the Volkisch movement, something the nazis utlised in the 20s and 30s

You're confusing the 19th-century/early-20th-century blood-and-soilish Völkisch Movement with the modern Dem deutschen Volke sentiment, which is famously inscripted on the Reichstag.

The former was already dated when the Nazis came to power, they bastardised an already-discriminatory movement into something truly evil.

The latter is a mainstream sentiment, not a far-right one. A sentiment not just AfD promotes (the government serve the German People), but ostensibly every serving government should. That the last few years of governance appear to have...let's say...'broadened their horizons' somewhat, is the very reason why Alternativ für Deutschland came into being in the first place.

They exist as a protest-party, to protest that the last couple of governments have taken their eye off the ball.

criticism of the Holocaust Memorial Museum
opposition to immigration and multi-culturalism and a call for mass deportations
opponents of same sex marriage
climate change deniers

Source? I linked their manifesto. You're not linking very much.

....how on earth do your hand support to that lot?

I don't think you're reading my replies.

 

[dholliday]

Currently reading a very interesting book on the history of Portugal by Barry Hatton. Doesn’t hide from any difficult questions and details how a party like the disgusting far right Chega party have been able to gain popularity.

oh yes, that well-known Portugese writer Barry Hatton lol

 

[PKwalnuts]

oh yes, that well-known Portugese writer Barry Hatton lol

Senor Barry to you

 

[dholliday]

AFD are pure scum.

Why?

Sadly the far right have gained a foothold in mainstream politics across all of Europe

Source? And for argument's sake let's say it is so...why "sadly" ? Which declared policies and from which party do you find so sad?

So many treat Left-vs-Right like football teams. Far-Right is like a Liverpool FC with 11 John Aldridges.

using racist language to gain fringe votes and line their own pockets.

Sauce? And if they're only gaining fringe votes, how does that equate to a foothold? Fringe, by definition, doesn't have that much influence on things.


The term "far-right" has become a bad bogeyman...a phantom actually representing anti-establishmentarianism rather than anything sinister.

Unless you find being anti-establishment sinister?

Now that is sinister.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Why?


Source? And for argument's sake let's say it is so...why "sadly" ? Which declared policies and from which party do you find so sad?

So many treat Left-vs-Right like football teams. Far-Right is like a Liverpool FC with 11 John Aldridges.



Sauce? And if they're only gaining fringe votes, how does that equate to a foothold? Fringe, by definition, doesn't have that much influence on things.


The term "far-right" has become a bad bogeyman...a phantom actually representing anti-establishmentarianism rather than anything sinister.

Unless you find being anti-establishment sinister?

Now that is sinister.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Hitler was a bad bogeyman; lessons from history. Never forget.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Liverpool FC with 11 John Aldridges.

Is there enough...

...Sauce?

on earth for such an abomination

In the late great words of Linda Smith, "I'm not so concerned with him having the oxygen of publicity, more the oxygen of oxygen..."

 

[dholliday]

Hitler was a bad bogeyman; lessons from history. Never forget.

Was Merkel acting like Hitler when she ordered a democratic vote cancelled when her favoured candidate didn't win? Does it remind us of Nazi-era propaganda when the media barely reported on this, and even less so when her favoured candidate won the re-run?

Discuss.

 

[Rita_Poon]

At least gove met his waterloo.

#smallmercies

 

[dholliday]

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Was Merkel acting like Hitler when she ordered a democratic vote cancelled when her favoured candidate didn't win? Does it remind us of Nazi-era propaganda when the media barely reported on this, and even less so when her favoured candidate won the re-run?

Discuss.

Cite your sources please. And make sure they are books as this is the book thread.

 

[Jebus_lives]

jaysus...i should write a book

You really shouldn't.

 

[kev]

jaysus...i should write a book

You really shouldn't.

TBF that's about his only on topic post in the last ten pages lol

 

[Jebus_lives]

Neo Nazis are bogeymen and the AfD are a lovely bunch of lads... They just suffer from bad PR by the establishment. Those loveable fascists!

Good grief.

 

[dholliday]

Cite your sources please. And make sure they are books as this is the book thread.

i did. here it is again. Good luck finding an english report.

Thüringen: Was heißt hier Demokratie

Thomas Kemmerich wurde mit Hilfe der AfD-Stimmen zum Ministerpräsidenten von Thüringen gewählt. Sowas rückgängig machen – ist das demokratisch?

daserste.ndr.de

Das Erste is as mainstream as it gets, publicly-funded by mandatory citizen-payments, like the BBC. So not linking you any fringe 'far-right' things.


In short: after the Landtag-vote (vote for Regional Chief from parliament members) Thomas Kemerich (FDP) was forced to resign his newly-won position as Minister-President of Thüringen (a region of 2m people) because Merkel put pressure on his party via her much more powerful CDU.

The official reason is because AfD members voted for Kemerich rather than their own candidate as he had an actual chance of winning (Kemerich is Right-of-Centre, and specifically somewhat anti-Left). This isn't against any democratic rules, but the establishment see it as a faux pas as AfD are persona non grata...i.e. no-one among the establishment should have anything to do with them.

This however isn't a problem when other parties do it. Which proved to be the case as the vote was re-run without Kemerich and Merkel's favoured establishment Left-party candidate Bodo Ramelow won...and he remains Minister-President today...a CDU-supported Lefty in a region which voted AfD more than any other party.

Not very democratic, is it?

Would be a major newsflashing scandal if someone like an Orban or Boris did similar.


Fascism...it seems...is in the eye of the beholder. To my eyes, that event is probably the most fascistic political event Germany has seen since the Wall came down.

But barely anyone knows about it...yet everyone seems convinced the AfD are 'far-right nazi scum'.


Interesting times.