"The John Terry factor"

[GhostOfDixie]

Excellent analysis. I never doubted his enthusiasm at all no matter what I think of his personal life.

No way do I classify him with regards to Anelka and Evra either. They are the epitamy of big cry babies. He(Terry) wanted to let the air out but didn't do it in the right way. Now instead of concentrating in the game in hand the coaches and players have to stamp out the fires. I don't think this is to healthy as this matchup has to be given 100% attention with no side topics.

Or maybe it's sent a message that something is not right in the camp, so fix it Capello.

 

[chicoazul]

CAPELLO OUT.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Or maybe it's sent a message that something is not right in the camp, so fix it Capello.

I agree with that to a point. But with the talent on the field we possess this shouldn't be a issue should it? Especially against teams like Algeria. Like I alluded to in a earlier quote Capello is a very capable coach but I feel England needs a home bred leader.

 

[EFCNIK]

The Capmeister is the MAN, man!

 

[Rook]

I agree with that to a point. But with the talent on the field we possess this shouldn't be a issue should it? Especially against teams like Algeria. Like I alluded to in a earlier quote Capello is a very capable coach but I feel England needs a home bred leader.

Who? Harry Rednapp? Hodgson, McClaren and Harry are probably the only 3 accomplished English managers in football right now. Come to think of it, it would be kind of entertaining to see if perhaps Harry could bankrupt the FA, get Wembley repossessed and shipped to China.

I'm not sure if the players would listen to Hodgson and McClaren for obvious reasons is out.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Who? Harry Rednapp? Hodgson, McClaren and Harry are probably the only 3 accomplished English managers in football right now. Come to think of it, it would be kind of entertaining to see if perhaps Harry could bankrupt the FA, get Wembley repossessed and shipped to China.

I'm not sure if the players would listen to Hodgson and McClaren for obvious reasons is out.

Rook sorry you feel that way. But I must say there will always be excellent football minds coming out of the British Isles. The names you mention have something sullied about them perhaps but I grew up with Legends. Catterick,Revie,Busby,Ramsey,Shankley,Clough and so on. I am very optimistic that Capello can turn the ship around but what is evident to me is the line of communication needs to be tighter.

 

[Rook]

Rook sorry you feel that way. But I must say there will always be excellent football minds coming out of the British Isles. The names you mention have something sullied about them perhaps but I grew up with Legends. Catterick,Revie,Busby,Ramsey,Shankley,Clough and so on. I am very optimistic that Capello can turn the ship around but what is evident to me is the line of communication needs to be tighter.

I know there are lots of good managers however an up and comer would never get picked. It would have to be one of the 3. Actually to be honest Rednapp might be a decent choise because he keeps things simple. I don't like him very much but he's almost always been successful. Whoever it is the manager who does comes in will have to clean house, overhaul the lineup and put the majority of these players out to pasture. Start with the young generation, throw in a couple of hard working vets who aren't drama queens (Dawson and Jags) and see how they grow.

The sullying on them is probably projected anger at the idiots at bigsoccer.com who think that Gus Hiddink is Brian Clough, Cruyff, Robson, and Murhino all rolled into one and any European manager would turn the US into Brasil 1970. Granted Gus is a good manager but really hasn't done much lately. The Aussies won in spite of him not because of him. Remember Cahill on the bench, remember him benching Swartzer for guy called Spider-Man or whatever the F his name is. He was the worst keeper I ever saw.. It was the worst lineup choise in recent WC history (worse than leaving Messi on the bench; oh Peckerman is another one who will turn the US into world beaters). Russia he did OK with, they beat the Netherlands but the US beating Spain was more impresive. But Slovenia beat them and Russia is much more talented than the US.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

I know there are lots of good managers however an up and comer would never get picked. It would have to be one of the 3. Actually to be honest Rednapp might be a decent choise because he keeps things simple. I don't like him very much but he's almost always been successful. Whoever it is the manager who does comes in will have to clean house, overhaul the lineup and put the majority of these players out to pasture. Start with the young generation, throw in a couple of hard working vets who aren't drama queens (Dawson and Jags) and see how they grow.

The sullying on them is probably projected anger at the idiots at bigsoccer.com who think that Gus Hiddink is Brian Clough, Cruyff, Robson, and Murhino all rolled into one and any European manager would turn the US into Brasil 1970. Granted Gus is a good manager but really hasn't done much lately. The Aussies won in spite of him not because of him. Remember Cahill on the bench, remember him benching Swartzer for guy called Spider-Man or whatever the F his name is. He was the worst keeper I ever saw.. It was the worst lineup choise in recent WC history (worse than leaving Messi on the bench; oh Peckerman is another one who will turn the US into world beaters). Russia he did OK with, they beat the Netherlands but the US beating Spain was more impresive. But Slovenia beat them and Russia is much more talented than the US.

There will be a complete overhaul of the England team anyway. Like to see some hard workers in there like Baines & Jags to go with skilled performers like Adam Johnson and Daniel Sturridge. We need a core group who will find ways to win.

 

[00Mike26]

I'd agree with you to the extent that Capello is on a steep learning curve himself in international football and is not above criticism this WC campaign. Your defence of the 'principled' Terry confuses me though. It's not like he hasn't got form in undermining managers is it? I think what's happened subsequent to 'the meeting' speaks volumes: he's a chief with no braves. He took a punt on grabbing effective power in the camp from the manager and the rest of the squad appear to have given him the bums rush. In short - Terry is fcuked from now on in. If they fail to qualify he'll be in the frame; if they qualify for the KO phase I think we'll see him frozen out by Capello.

Don't think I ever said he was 'principled', just that he gives a [Poor language removed]. Maybe you're right about him copping the blame if we fail to qualify, but everyone will be wrong. We were royally [Poor language removed] before he said anything, so he can't be blamed if we're still royally [Poor language removed] afterwards. He saw that things were wrong, checked with the other senior players to see if they agreed, then he said his piece (which, incidentally, has been massively overblown anyway). I still can't see anyone other than a big character who wants to take responsibility and lead his country to victory. The people seeing a 'book deal' and all that other bollocks are either conspiracy nuts, bitter as hell, or just so morally virtuous they can't stand to see somebody like Terry be in the right.

A simple logical truth remains, the fact that Terry shagged somebody he shouldn't have done has no bearing whatsoever on the rights or wrongs of this situation. Anybody who's even mentioned it has shown their own opinion to be tainted by negative personal feelings towards him as a person rather than based on the matter in hand.

This is not the best squad we've ever taken to a World Cup, it wouldn't have been even if Capello had picked the right 23, but it is probably the easiest draw we've ever had, certainly in my living memory, and he is failing abysmally right now, and the manager is to blame. £6M a year to play Gerrard on the left <shakes head...>

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Wonder what you would think if Neville had a go at Moyes before a pivotal game?

 

[Cena]

Wonder what you would think if Neville had a go at Moyes before a pivotal game?

Would never happen mate, we do things with dignity here, we're Everton, not England

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Would never happen mate, we do things with dignity here, we're Everton, not England

Now my faith in humanity is restored. Everton is bigger than the individual. Ahhh now I feel better.

 

[mezzrow]

Would never happen mate, we do things with dignity here, we're Everton, not England

This.

 

[00Mike26]

Wonder what you would think if Neville had a go at Moyes before a pivotal game?

I wouldn't say Terry 'had a go'. I think the airing of different viewpoints is healthy.

Club and country situations are different, especially with the nature of tournament football, but if Moyes was refusing to change an obviously ridiculous tactical set-up that had led to two poor performances and the danger of blowing the easiest group we've ever been drawn in then I would want somebody to speak out. DEspecially if he'd managed to take top level Champions League players famous for their passion and commitment and have them playing tepid, fearful football constantly leaving the ball to somebody else to take responsibility. The right medium would actually be for Neville/Terry to see Moyes/Capello in private, but maybe Capello discourages that sort of thing, that's certainly the impression he gives.

The other difference is that Neville is lucky to get in our team, that's not true of Terry, especially with Ferdinand and King out.

I see he's looking to bring in Milner for Lennon to solve the problem of our being too slow and pedestrian...

 

[davek]

Don't think I ever said he was 'principled', just that he gives a [Poor language removed]. Maybe you're right about him copping the blame if we fail to qualify, but everyone will be wrong. We were royally [Poor language removed] before he said anything, so he can't be blamed if we're still royally [Poor language removed] afterwards. He saw that things were wrong, checked with the other senior players to see if they agreed, then he said his piece (which, incidentally, has been massively overblown anyway). I still can't see anyone other than a big character who wants to take responsibility and lead his country to victory. The people seeing a 'book deal' and all that other bollocks are either conspiracy nuts, bitter as hell, or just so morally virtuous they can't stand to see somebody like Terry be in the right.

A simple logical truth remains, the fact that Terry shagged somebody he shouldn't have done has no bearing whatsoever on the rights or wrongs of this situation. Anybody who's even mentioned it has shown their own opinion to be tainted by negative personal feelings towards him as a person rather than based on the matter in hand.

This is not the best squad we've ever taken to a World Cup, it wouldn't have been even if Capello had picked the right 23, but it is probably the easiest draw we've ever had, certainly in my living memory, and he is failing abysmally right now, and the manager is to blame. £6M a year to play Gerrard on the left <shakes head...>

Ok, he might come with a lot of baggage that we view his actions in the context of, but John Terry 'giving a [Poor language removed]' has been counter productive to the required objective of qualifying. Not exactly the way to prepare for a game like Slovenia when half the time is taken up by fending off journalists in a feeding frenzy over what Terry served up to them. You can portray that as being the actions of a big character I suppose. The fact that the big character in question undermines the manager in his job is undeniable and it's something he has form in doing - and getting away with it. In short, it's his stock in trade. This time he bit more off than he could chew thereby demonstrating a terrible misjudgement...just like some of his wayward back passes.