The Privileged Elite

[Seanjd]

And my point is that the interviewers rarely are Eton schoolboys.

Well, yeah. That depends on the job, doesn't it.

 

[The Cowboy]

Well, yeah. That depends on the job, doesn't it.

Of course. From what I'd read in the thread I felt the finger was being pointed towards the banking industry, hence my responses. Apologies if I've got the wrong end if the stick.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It all depends though, doesn't it? And it comes back to the fact that if you grow up in a deprived area or in a low income family, you're less likely to. It isn't good enough to just say. 'If they work hard enough and really want it, they will.'

You have no choice which family you're born into, where you grow up and how much wealth you have. It's luck of the draw.
If you're born into a family with wealth in a good area, you have a better chance of succeeding than if you were born into deprivation. That's it.

No, and I think that's something of an unmentionable. Esk said a few pages back about the wealth of the parent being the best indicator of future success, but my other half works in this area, and the parents are hugely influential on the chances of their offspring. It isn't so much the money (although of course that helps in a Goldilocks kinda way), but having two parents that raise the child well. I know Clint would say you shouldn't punish the child for having hopeless parents, and I sympathise with that enormously, but it's incredibly difficult for a child to thrive if the parents are hopeless, no matter what state support is provided.

Sadly the part of the NHS that helps new parents is not as politically sensitive as the junior doctors and so has been shunted off to local authority control and as such has seen budgets cut quite heavily. I suppose we'll reap what we sow.

 

[Joey66]

Brexit was right, the Polish are getting all of the jobs at the moment.

Might alter when we sign article 50 Bruce see we had the best manufacturing output for 25 years yesterday as Brexit fears lowered the £ now we are booming - Osborne and Cameron got it so wrong with the economy scare tactics to oh and the stock market is so high too - pair of con artist!

Glad their fear tactics have backfired no emergency budget as well - proves to me we will cope without a political EU union - proves control of our borders will help to fetch in the best talents from all over the world not just the EU!

 

[Tree13]

Like many things while grammar schools appear great on paper the reality of them is they widen social stratification. The answer is to have well funded schools which all children are able to go too. Also adopting the principles of Vygotsky would help, and philosophically most would acknowledge mixed ability teaching is hugely beneficial, which of course runs contrary to the Grammar school model.

Vygotskian principles form the entire basis of teacher training in the UK. You literally cannot pass the course without accepting and repeating ad infinitum that Vygostky was right about everything. This means that most current school staff in the UK are well-versed on Vygotskian principles, and adoption of said principles within state schooling is already widespread.

The important fact to remember however is that state schools commonly have more than 30 children per class and this is the absolute number one impediment to improving behavioural and academic outcomes for pupils. The one thing private schools (and grammars, to a lesser extent) do undeniably better than state schools is recognise this obvious truth and shape their model accordingly.

Whilst smaller class sizes would not address the original topic of this thread (alumni from private schools favouring others who went to the same school), it would go a long way to improving the academic progress, emotional wellbeing , health and behaviour of children in state schools.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce I could not agree more trouble is whole generations get written off. Referring back to the article, Etonians don't have to believe in anything else other than what is laid for them. My mates wife taught at Roughwood, any kid with a brain, she claimed, got it knocked out of them. The only fault in this life for the Roughwood kid is being born via underprivileged sperm

Who knocks it out of them though? That's what I don't really get.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Might alter when we sign article 50 Bruce see we had the best manufacturing output for 25 years yesterday as Brexit fears lowered the £ now we are booming - Osborne and Cameron got it so wrong with the economy scare tactics to oh and the stock market is so high too - pair of con artist!

Glad their fear tactics have backfired no emergency budget as well - proves to me we will cope without a political EU union - proves control of our borders will help to fetch in the best talents from all over the world not just the EU!

We haven't actually left yet Joe, and the BoE have simultaneously printed a whole load of money and reduced interest rates even further.

 

[Tree13]

Who knocks it out of them though? That's what I don't really get.

All the other kids in the school. Either physical bullying, or socio-emotional bullying. The more covert socio-emotional bullying is widely reported by children to be more damaging, more widespread, less noticed by staff and less acted upon.

There's no kudos to being the brainy kid in the average state school - the other kids ridicule you for it. Accolades from the school for being the brainy kid just make it worse. Much of it sadly is fuelled by ignorant parents who see school as nothing more than daycare, because they place little value upon education themselves.

 

[Seanjd]

No, and I think that's something of an unmentionable. Esk said a few pages back about the wealth of the parent being the best indicator of future success, but my other half works in this area, and the parents are hugely influential on the chances of their offspring. It isn't so much the money (although of course that helps in a Goldilocks kinda way), but having two parents that raise the child well. I know Clint would say you shouldn't punish the child for having hopeless parents, and I sympathise with that enormously, but it's incredibly difficult for a child to thrive if the parents are hopeless, no matter what state support is provided.

Sadly the part of the NHS that helps new parents is not as politically sensitive as the junior doctors and so has been shunted off to local authority control and as such has seen budgets cut quite heavily. I suppose we'll reap what we sow.

Its much harder to parent well if you are deprived.

 

[Seanjd]

Vygotskian principles form the entire basis of teacher training in the UK. You literally cannot pass the course without accepting and repeating ad infinitum that Vygostky was right about everything. This means that most current school staff in the UK are well-versed on Vygotskian principles, and adoption of said principles within state schooling is already widespread.

The important fact to remember however is that state schools commonly have more than 30 children per class and this is the absolute number one impediment to improving behavioural and academic outcomes for pupils. The one thing private schools (and grammars, to a lesser extent) do undeniably better than state schools is recognise this obvious truth and shape their model accordingly.

Whilst smaller class sizes would not address the original topic of this thread (alumni from private schools favouring others who went to the same school), it would go a long way to improving the academic progress, emotional wellbeing , health and behaviour of children in state schools.

I agree that class sizes can play a role towards better teaching. Private schools usually have a lower number of pupils on role, though, all of whom are paying a decent amount of money to afford the luxury of having lower class sizes.

There are loads of state schools with class sizes of 20 ish on average.

Others have no choice.

 

[monty]

Genuinely have no idea what you're talking about now.

Read the article that this thread is about then you may be qualified

 

[monty]

Who knocks it out of them though? That's what I don't really get.

Ill educated individuals both classmates and parents, teachers give up on some and despite all the governmental 'we'll do this and we'll do that' (all parties) its as bad today as ever it was the result being that the divide between the privileged and needy gets even wider. The lady I'm talking about was a cracking teacher managing to get some kids to react, sadly 95% don't.

 

[catcherintherye]

Vygotskian principles form the entire basis of teacher training in the UK. You literally cannot pass the course without accepting and repeating ad infinitum that Vygostky was right about everything. This means that most current school staff in the UK are well-versed on Vygotskian principles, and adoption of said principles within state schooling is already widespread.

The important fact to remember however is that state schools commonly have more than 30 children per class and this is the absolute number one impediment to improving behavioural and academic outcomes for pupils. The one thing private schools (and grammars, to a lesser extent) do undeniably better than state schools is recognise this obvious truth and shape their model accordingly.

Whilst smaller class sizes would not address the original topic of this thread (alumni from private schools favouring others who went to the same school), it would go a long way to improving the academic progress, emotional wellbeing , health and behaviour of children in state schools.

Having worked as a teacher for a number of years mate, I can assure you that Vygotskian methods have been heavily moved away from and in all honesty were never implemented in the manner he wanted them to be (but for a couple that were successful introduced during the middle of the last decade). Most Heads, OFSTED inspectors and governors have no idea who Vygotsky really is and the system we have is increasingly moving further away from the principles he wanted. I remember one Chief Ofsted inspector (and "Superhead") giving me a glazed over look when I told him I tried to emulate Vygotskian principles. Try and bring up Piaget, Bruner or Dewey and you are flogging a dead horse, they'd rather listen to Etons Head teacher for inspiration.

The class sizes argument is very important. You can't argue private schools have lower class sizes and it is a critical factor in improving outcomes. They are far better funded, generally private schools have anywhere from 3 to (in a significant number of cases 6) times the funding per pupil to state schools. That has continued to decline under this government.

Better funding and reducing class sizes would "close the gap" but that debate is avoided. We are taught to adopt their teaching methods (often from people without QTS) or uniform (often prohibitively priced for already cash strapped parents). It is an important question really, if you don't fund education you will see negative results in the end. Having said that, when results are equivalent the opportunities for students differ greatly which does need to be acknowledged and tackled.

 

[Tree13]

I agree that class sizes can play a role towards better teaching. Private schools usually have a lower number of pupils on role, though, all of whom are paying a decent amount of money to afford the luxury of having lower class sizes.

There are loads of state schools with class sizes of 20 ish on average.

Others have no choice.

Not compared to thirty years ago there aren't. And of those that do still only have 20 per class, many will be facing closure.

 

[Joey66]

We haven't actually left yet Joe, and the BoE have simultaneously printed a whole load of money and reduced interest rates even further.

nothing to do with it Brexit caused our over inflated £ to drop our manufacturing industries best figures for 25 years Bruce real jobs productivity will also rise - just wait till the red political red tape is removed onwards and upwards all over the world trade Bruce not just in a political EU -
As soon as article 50 is signed yes a bump then a tremedous rise Bruce - we will be free from a EU parliament who tells us how to spend our grants our laws etc freedom Bruce freedom!
Trading all over the world no restriction Bruce just power within our parliament whats wrong with that????????