The senior players at Everton: do they need to go before we can prosper?

[Deleted member 48881]

Just keep Baines out of the bunch, rest should leave IMO

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Said it for years. Our problems go way beyond just who the manager is, there's a fundamental problem with our players who have a losers mentality ingrained into them. It's not all their fault but there's no way back for the vast majority of them. There's only about one or two senior players we have worth keeping. The rest we need to rid ourselves of asap.

Yeah, it’s all mentality, Nothing to do with them not being as good as some of the other players in the league...

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Exactly. That's what I'm driving at. My addition to that is to suggest senior players in particular are to blame and because they are senior they carry a lot of weight and therefore act as a counter-power to the coaching staff.

I’m sorry, but that’s just silly. The only guys that have been here that whole time are Jags and Baines. Suggesting that basically two guys are responsible for the downfall of any manager, says more about the quality of the manager than anything.

 

[gianthogweed]

Couple of those lads have been here since the Moyes era that fella has had 4 jobs since then
personally i'd get rid of all the senior pros from this club they offer nothing but soundbites after another gutless performance

 

[Saint Domingo]

All in the bin. They’ve championed complete mediocrity for too long.

 

[Zatara]

@Eggs I think you're 'off-piste' on this and I agree with @davek and others (to an extent).

When someone joins a new company they need to also 'fall in line' with the company culture. Even if you hire one or two top people they will still be unlikely to change the company culture unless they manage to change the mentality of the senior/experienced staff.

In short, simply signing a handful of players wouldn't have much effect on change.

Schneiderlin
Baines
Williams
Jagielka
Bolasie
Sandro
Mirallas
Cuco
McCarthy
Niasse
Klaassen
Besic
Stekelenburg
Mori
Galloway
Robles
Garbutt
Pennington
Grant
Hewelt
Tarashaj
Browning

That's 22 players listed on the EvertonFC website first team squad who (for varying reasons) wont elevate the club to the top 6.

Pickford
Keane
Walcott
Tosun
Gana
Sigurdsson
Coleman
Vlasic
Dowell
Calvert-Lewin
Holgate
Lookman
Kenny
Baningime
Onyekuru

That's 15 players who are on the EvertonFC website first team squad who (for varying reasons) should stay.


If we were looking at retaining any players then it would be the following;
Stekelenburg -- 3rd choice keeper
Jagielka --4th choice centre back
Baines -- 2nd choice left back
Rooney -- 4th choice centre midfielder
Id retain Besic and McCarthy but they're injury prone.
Connolly and (J)Williams may show something in pre-season but likely loans again.



To summarise, i'd keep 15 players but then we would literally need to sign 10 more which could cause massive disruption. So, the ;logical thing to do would be to retain Stekelenburg, Jagielka, Baines and Rooney in back-up/supporting roles for one final season taking us to 19 players and needing to sign 6 more.

The following summer we then replace those 4 with players to add the cherry onto the squad built this summer.

The key for me is to sell literally everyone else on the top list...then invest well.

 

[carolinablue232]

@Eggs I think you're 'off-piste' on this and I agree with @davek and others (to an extent).

When someone joins a new company they need to also 'fall in line' with the company culture. Even if you hire one or two top people they will still be unlikely to change the company culture unless they manage to change the mentality of the senior/experienced staff.

In short, simply signing a handful of players wouldn't have much effect on change.

Schneiderlin
Baines
Williams
Jagielka
Bolasie
Sandro
Mirallas
Cuco
McCarthy
Niasse
Klaassen
Besic
Stekelenburg
Mori
Galloway
Robles
Garbutt
Pennington
Grant
Hewelt
Tarashaj
Browning

That's 22 players listed on the EvertonFC website first team squad who (for varying reasons) wont elevate the club to the top 6.

Pickford
Keane
Walcott
Tosun
Gana
Sigurdsson
Coleman
Vlasic
Dowell
Calvert-Lewin
Holgate
Lookman
Kenny
Baningime
Onyekuru

That's 15 players who are on the EvertonFC website first team squad who (for varying reasons) should stay.


If we were looking at retaining any players then it would be the following;
Stekelenburg -- 3rd choice keeper
Jagielka --4th choice centre back
Baines -- 2nd choice left back
Rooney -- 4th choice centre midfielder
Id retain Besic and McCarthy but they're injury prone.
Connolly and (J)Williams may show something in pre-season but likely loans again.



To summarise, i'd keep 15 players but then we would literally need to sign 10 more which could cause massive disruption. So, the ;logical thing to do would be to retain Stekelenburg, Jagielka, Baines and Rooney in back-up/supporting roles for one final season taking us to 19 players and needing to sign 6 more.

The following summer we then replace those 4 with players to add the cherry onto the squad built this summer.

The key for me is to sell literally everyone else on the top list...then invest well.

Everyone on your top list making over 70k/week will stay because there won't be anyone daft enough to take them. With Sandro, Bolasie, Klassen, Rooney, and Mirallas we'd be lucky to find anyone willing to pay them half what they're on. I still have hope Schneiderlin can be moved but that'll be at a loss.

 

[Toffee in Jandals]

I dont think there's any doubt that these players are having undue influence in managerial decisions now.

If you're referring to when Baines spoke out against Roberto, he was only echoing what 80% of the fanbase wanted. I don't think Baines is an especially malevolent force at the club.

On to the topic at hand, I'd like Baines to stay, the rest that you named, I wouldn't lose sleep if they weren't at Everton August 31st. Jagielka though would go with my best wishes and thanks for a good job at the club.

 

[SerenityNigh]

It's a subject that has been discussed on the Fonseca thread pretty keenly. Maybe a new thread is required to discuss it?

For me, we have a clear way forward with a new manager and DoF ONLY IF we get rid of most of the named players in the poll...and I wouldn't object to all of them being shown the door. I consider them to be the core of an alternate power source at the club which determines the fate of our season depending on how they are being asked to play by the coaching staff. It's leading us to an unwanted revolving managerial door at the club and it's now vital we end their time here in order to give us a chance to develop again.

What say you?

No, not all of them. You need senior players, especially those with the will to, and experience of, winning.

Rooney should stay. I think Baines should probably stay. I’m for Jagielka, too, but I could be convinced otherwise.

None of these should play, however, and I don’t know about the armband.

Williams and Schneiderlin can be pushed out from shore on a pontoon boat, for all I care.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Yeah, it’s all mentality, Nothing to do with them not being as good as some of the other players in the league...

People like you will always make excuses for this club and pretend other sides just have better players so that makes it understandable that we are crap. This is part of the reason we have this mentality. How much money did Portsmouth or Wigan have when they won the FA Cup? How much money did Swansea and Birmingham have when they won the league cup? How about Leicester winning the league? You know what, let's forget trophy's for a second. How many rivals go this long without winning a Derby and cant get the win even when said rival isnt arsed?! Of course It has everything to do with mentality and a losers "well at least we tried" boys club culture at the club. It's why our good sides always chocked on the big occasions even when they were the better side and it's why our rubbish look even worse then they actually are. Being a rubbish side doesn't necessarily mean they are mentality weak losers with a lack of belief and vice versa.

 

[davek]

If you're referring to when Baines spoke out against Roberto, he was only echoing what 80% of the fanbase wanted. I don't think Baines is an especially malevolent force at the club.

On to the topic at hand, I'd like Baines to stay, the rest that you named, I wouldn't lose sleep if they weren't at Everton August 31st. Jagielka though would go with my best wishes and thanks for a good job at the club.

Baines is the key person to get out. He offers nothing on the pitch now - certainly there is no consistency of performance and thats what we need. Bertrand will be relegated so we should move for him and sign a back up for him. But Baines has proven he cant be trusted with team privacy. I cant abide snitches in squads. He's been a principle voice against managers since Moyes, IMO. He certainly has offered none his support.

I guarantee if we got rid of him we'd be much more balanced: on the pitch and in the dressing room.

 

[davek]

No, not all of them. You need senior players, especially those with the will to, and experience of, winning.

Rooney should stay. I think Baines should probably stay. I’m for Jagielka, too, but I could be convinced otherwise.

None of these should play, however, and I don’t know about the armband.

Williams and Schneiderlin can be pushed out from shore on a pontoon boat, for all I care.

You've lost me!

 

[catcherintherye]

They should go but it needs to be done in a phased way. I think in football, as in life in general people are moved on more quickly than they ought to be.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Interestingly I have read in various places that the potentially destabilising 'clique' if you like, is wholly centered around Unsworth. I suspect any potential clear out may have start with him , otherwise it won't serve its purpose.

 

[Boss_Rarkley]

The big 4 to go have to be:

Rooney
Williams
Mirallas
Schneirderlin

All 4 have poisonous attitudes and sny new manager would face trouble if they aint playing every week.

I think Rooney will stay but the others will go - problem is Rooney won't be happy with a squad player role.

Its why we need a strong Emery type manager who will come in with trophies under his belt and not afraid to tell big name players they havent a future.

On top of those 4 you then have the below players who are simply not good enough/finished:

Besic
Jagielka
Klaassan
Bolasie
Sandro
Browning
Garbutt
Galloway

Send Calvert Lewin, Onykeru and Vlasic out on loan.

We then need about 5 good signings:

LM
2x CM
LB
CB