The Zodiac Killer

[Groucho]

Damn it, thought this would be a thread about the good old ford zodiac with the trusty Wessex v6 engine, much loved by the rozzers in z cars.

Tv. Meh.

Humour, Grouchy.

Sake.

*logs off till new year

If you’re gonna lecture us on humour, do us a favour and find a different joke because this is the same one from the same thread from 2018.

Hasn't he been ruled out via DNA from the letters anyway?

Hasn't he been ruled out via DNA from the letters anyway?

Assuming the killer wrote the letters anyway.

Yeh know it was years later. Was it saliva DNA or just fingerprints? I mean to me I always thought it was him; just like you saw all the coincidences mounting up.

See I would like to think he was clever enough to either have left no clues or clues to someone else to throw them off the sent, such as the gloves that got found I think in a taxi.
But DNA I don't think was known about then, so accidentally whoever did it surly would leave some.

The DNA was taken from the front of the stamp in 2002 so is pretty much useless and could be anyone who has handled the letters over the last 51 years.

The DNA they have at the moment is a partial profile from the back of a stamp and is ongoing.

 

[Nymzee]

If you’re gonna lecture us on humour, do us a favour and find a different joke because this is the same one from the same thread from 2018.

Hasn't he been ruled out via DNA from the letters anyway?





The DNA was taken from the front of the stamp in 2002 so is pretty much useless and could be anyone who has handled the letters over the last 51 years.

The DNA they have at the moment is a partial profile from the back of a stamp and is ongoing.

In my eyes this is going to never be solved. Especially with the main suspect dead.

 

[trueblue84]

See I would like to think he was clever enough to either have left no clues or clues to someone else to throw them off the sent, such as the gloves that got found I think in a taxi.
But DNA I don't think was known about then, so accidentally whoever did it surly would leave some.

There was saliva testing in those days (it could confirm blood type, apparently), so they would/could have known that licking a stamp could incriminate them.

 

[Groucho]

There was saliva testing in those days (it could confirm blood type, apparently), so they would/could have known that licking a stamp could incriminate them.

Blood type won’t really tell you that much though

 

[PhilM]

The problem is, it's entirely circumstantial. You can make things fit for any POI in this way (except for Tom Voight's pet, Richard Gaikowski imo, he's a non-starter). Ross Sullivan, Lawrance Kane, Ted Manalli, the list goes on.

I personally do not think it's ALA, he was a known paedophile who Don Cheney pointed the finger at because he got frisky with his daughter and wanted to make him pay.

I personally think it will be someone who isn't on the radar, just like JJD in the EARONS case. I do think he'll be ex-military though. There is actually a case for it being someone Paul Stine knew, because the FBI files state they have proof he travelled in the front seat of the cab, something which Stine never did unless he knew someone personally. Of course this isn't to say Stine had any part of it, but perhaps he discovered something that put him in danger?

Agreed.

There is a lot circumstantial evidence to put him in the frame hence why he was investigated, but equally (in terms of any defence) it is merely circumstantial.

The lack of finger prints, DNA, handwriting mismatch (for what it's worth) and inconsistencies with appearance all negate the evidence to the point of charging.

So we're into the realms of Occam's Razor, where we've got to make assumptions of collaboration and support; yet, there's no evidence to suggest this is the case.

From experience, secrets between collaborators don't always stay secret because loyalties change and it requires the same level of secrecy/integrity from all.

Where is the suspicion for the other individual from their siblings or friends, like with Allan? Why did the letters not talk about collaboration? Where's their kudos?

Therefore, perhaps it's simply not him and someone else? It could be him, I'm not saying it wasn't, but it's also as likely to have been someone entirely different.

A genuine question here as I don't know the answer: did he have any Maths experience or cypher knowledge?

 

[trueblue84]

Agreed.

There is a lot circumstantial evidence to put him in the frame hence why he was investigated, but equally (in terms of any defence) it is merely circumstantial.

The lack of finger prints, DNA, handwriting mismatch (for what it's worth) and inconsistencies with appearance all negate the evidence to the point of charging.

So we're into the realms of Occam's Razor, where we've got to make assumptions of collaboration and support; yet, there's no evidence to suggest this is the case.

From experience, secrets between collaborators don't always stay secret because loyalties change and it requires the same level of secrecy/integrity from all.

Where is the suspicion for the other individual from their siblings or friends, like with Allan? Why did the letters not talk about collaboration? Where's their kudos?

Therefore, perhaps it's simply not him and someone else? It could be him, I'm not saying it wasn't, but it's also as likely to have been someone entirely different.

A genuine question here as I don't know the answer: did he have any Maths experience or cypher knowledge?

The other circumstantial evidence is that the zodiac calls stopped when allen went to prison and resumed when he was released.

I'm not sure about the cypher stuff. I thought he did have knowledge, but can't find it anywhere. The other thing to note was that there were in unsubstantiated stories about crypto books being stolen from libraries in the area.

The problem with this case is that it has almost become a legend, so it is hard to cut through the bollocks.

 

[PhilM]

The other circumstantial evidence is that the zodiac calls stopped when allen went to prison and resumed when he was released.

I'm not sure about the cypher stuff. I thought he did have knowledge, but can't find it anywhere. The other thing to note was that there were in unsubstantiated stories about crypto books being stolen from libraries in the area.

The problem with this case is that it has almost become a legend, so it is hard to cut through the bollocks.

First and foremost I'm not saying it's him or disagreeing with your logic, but rather I'm highlighting how the evidence is circumstantial in the legal sense.

You know more than I do about the subject (mine is simply surface knowledge), but were the calls ever fully attributed to the Zodiac Killer e.g. was there proof?

Otherwise, the point could be that the evidence may suggest Allen made the calls, but that may be correlation rather than causation - e.g. not proving the killer.

After reading up, the cryptology elements combined with the maths (radian angle) and general writing style suggests a fairly comprehensive level of intelligence.

 

[trueblue84]

First and foremost I'm not saying it's him or disagreeing with your logic, but rather I'm highlighting how the evidence is circumstantial in the legal sense.

You know more than I do about the subject (mine is simply surface knowledge), but were the calls ever fully attributed to the Zodiac Killer e.g. was there proof?

Otherwise, the point could be that the evidence may suggest Allen made the calls, but that may be correlation rather than causation - e.g. not proving the killer.

After reading up, the cryptology elements combined with the maths (radian angle) and general writing style suggests a fairly comprehensive level of intelligence.

I know. I doubt we'll ever have anything more concrete.

 

[Groucho]

but were the calls ever fully attributed to the Zodiac Killer e.g. was there proof?

Do you mean the “post murder” calls? Yes I think they have proof from what the caller stated at the time.

It was him who called the police to state “I want to report a murder, no, a double murder”.

 

[PhilM]

Do you mean the “post murder” calls? Yes I think they have proof from what the caller stated at the time.

It was him who called the police to state “I want to report a murder, no, a double murder”.

The post murder or the calls made to the television station to speak to the lawyer, which I was reading about before.

 

[Groucho]

The post murder or the calls made to the television station to speak to the lawyer, which I was reading about before.

Well, the whole jist of the cipher Dave Oranchak cracked last week pretty much states “I’m not the guy who called the tv show”.

It’s now pretty much confirmed that it was a mental patient called Eric Weill who called in.

 

[RomanReigns]

If anyone Is interested itv are doing a drama about John cooper aka the bullseye serial killer

It starts around 10th January I think