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THG the 'clear'

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drugs in athletics, oh my god.

worlds fastest man (as in the 100 metres) is later disqualified for taking supplements or steroids banned.

[Poor language removed] all this.

as far as I'm concerned the worlds fastest man is whoever can run that fast over the distance regardless of what he has ingested.

as long as he's not strapped to a motorcyle or something then he is still the quickest man over the distance.

there is just a stigma and taboo over chemicals. Culturally, in the west, the consensus is, it is considered cheating.


there is as much logic to that consensus as there is to the loch ness monster.

still, why question anything, it feels much better to just follow the...
 
Sorry Robert, remember Albert Dunlop mate?

I'm pleased that some form of drug testing is started in golf, even beatablockers would constitute a form of cheating in that game(y)

I remember it well the old purple hearts trouble is now there is a drug you can take that disguises the fact that they have participated in drug taking
 
Can I suggest that American dominance of sports around the world is down to drugs then?

ok.
 
I would probaly say at least 50% of NFL players and even more baseball players use steroids/THG or both. The testing policies in the US sports leagues are a sham. Even if you do get caught you only have to sit out like 4 games for the NFL or in baseball you get suspended for 50 games the 2nd time you get caught.

In American college football steroids are rampant (the players can't afford THG). There is no testing for roids and the media doesn't investigate performance enhancers in college football.

I love it how Marion Jones apologizes after she got caught and was threatened with jail time. She added about 7 years to her career due to roids. She's laughing all the way to the bank.

I think alot of footballers probably use THG, for endurance and energy and to help with rehab. Not sure about roids though, at least in the rest of the world if you get caught you are suspended for at least 1-2 years. At least roids and THG doesn't really have the impact on football than it does in baseball or the NFL.
 
Can I suggest that American dominance of sports around the world is down to drugs then?

ok.

Yes we are one of the dirtest countries in the world. The US Olymipic commision often covers up positive drug tests for US athletes. Its funny becasue when the Olympics come around every 4 years, NBC basically has a policy that if the US doesn't win then the competetion is on performace enhancers. Because there's no way that our boys/girls would cheat.
 

American sports are by no means the only ones doing this. Look back at the old Eastern bloc regimes. Look at where the current drugs are coming from (hint, they are building the stadiums for the next Olympics as well as the bodies to compete in them). And good old Austria is as dirty as it comes when participating in certain sports (and I would be shot by most locals for saying that if guns weren't controlled ;) ).
 
We're not immune from it either. Christie, Ohorugu (sp), Tim Don the world triathlon champ was suspended for a missed test, David Millar the former world time trial champ was kicked out for missing a test, the Scottish skier who lost his silver medal on a failed test, Dwayn Chambers.........
 
I always thought the christie test was a strange one, why cheat when he had nothing to gain? very perculiar, especially as he hadnt raced in months.
 
I don't understand this argument. steroids, hormone, drugs, whatever.

If I want to see the fastest man (over 100metres say) then I don't give a crap if he has taken a shed load of drugs as well - just who is the fastest.

It's not natural you cry? Well neither is dedicating your entire life to running quick for a bit. Hours of training, gym work, diet, technique.

Why is it cheating? Its just another edge; its not like its getting onto a motorbike or something.

chemicals ingested into humans have given us an edge for millenia and some anthropologists even postulate that consciousness itself arose from proto-humans ingesting hallucinogenic fungi whilst we nomadically followed the ruminants on the plains of africa. This fungi apparently grew in the dung of the herds and heightened spatial awareness, movement perception and abilities in communication.

In other words it can be seen as a precursor to steroids. Those tribes that did not absorb fungi eating into their culture were soon by a process of evolutionary elimination weeded out, as they were less successful.

thus we evolved from drug taking primates into drug taking homo sapiens. And we learned to communicate.

any unwillingness to take drugs is merely people submiting to the verneer of contemporary culture, biologically your body and nervous system have evolved to ingest, respond and take advantage of a myriad of substances.

culturally at the moment this is considered abhorrent, as most sports are sanctioned by the more authorative regressive elements in society, and the use of chemicals has nearly always resulted in changes in consciousness and a resulting change in the fabric of society - witness the social upheaval and changes(some of them great liberal gains for people over governments and embedded policy at the time - protest marches, womens rights, black rights etc) that took place in the 60's.

Of course some of these drugs would have terrible effects for atheles, health wise, steroids being particularly bad. Which goes to show how dedicated and determined some of these people are to win. I'm not advocating taking drugs in sport (or not taking drugs in sport), just that it has a biological and anthropological precedent in the evolution of man and that its condemantion is merely a knee jerk reaction that has been taught to citizens by our culture, which condemns such things.

the same psychological motivation that puts them in the bracket of potential winners (i.e the drive to win at all costs) puts them in the same brackets as substance abusers (as is the modern inherently prejudiced parlance of the time).

still, I consider myself an advocate of sportsmanship (see dida), and no-one wants to see atheletes dropping dead on telly after too many steroids.

Perhaps the solution (the sporting solution) is to have two fields of competition - one without supplements the other with supplements. Regulation could warn against taking the really bad steroids etc. After that, the field is open.

I'd bet on the chemically assisted atheletes breaking all them world records real quick.

maybe the scientist could even invent a drug that could make me play footy well.
 
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Well the problem I have with it is the side effects. Look at the East German woman who became a man due to the drugs she was pumped full of. If you allow drugs to be used by athletes to gain an advantage that have detrimental side effects then you open a really big can of worms.

Lets say you have kids that want to take up a sport and dream of being the best. Are you going to be happy that the only way they can get to be the best is through taking substances that will probably mess up their health?

Look at Tom Simpson for instance. He took amphetamines to keep him going. Cool, except they killed him as he was riding up Mont Ventoux.

If sport is an activity that forces youngsters to seriously abuse their bodies and put extraordinary risks on their health then it will die off and become a freak show on a par with WWE wrestling.
 

American sports are by no means the only ones doing this. Look back at the old Eastern bloc regimes. Look at where the current drugs are coming from (hint, they are building the stadiums for the next Olympics as well as the bodies to compete in them). And good old Austria is as dirty as it comes when participating in certain sports (and I would be shot by most locals for saying that if guns weren't controlled ;) ).

Haha...good one Atrottel.

American sports I think are in the same boat with everyone else. You have your clean players, and you have your cheaters.

My main problem was with baseball. The owners and the commissioner knew they were using performance enhancing drugs but looked the other way as ratings were at an alltime high. Add to that a players union that wouldn't allow stringent testing and you had an environment where players figured that if they didn't use steroids, the next guy would and take their position and get the fat contract.

I'm afraid that where baseball is concerned, steroid use was/is rampant and only now are they beginning to try and tackle the problem.
 
Well the problem I have with it is the side effects. Look at the East German woman who became a man due to the drugs she was pumped full of. If you allow drugs to be used by athletes to gain an advantage that have detrimental side effects then you open a really big can of worms.

Lets say you have kids that want to take up a sport and dream of being the best. Are you going to be happy that the only way they can get to be the best is through taking substances that will probably mess up their health?

Look at Tom Simpson for instance. He took amphetamines to keep him going. Cool, except they killed him as he was riding up Mont Ventoux.

If sport is an activity that forces youngsters to seriously abuse their bodies and put extraordinary risks on their health then it will die off and become a freak show on a par with WWE wrestling.

yes, I agree. the health consequences for some drugs are terrible. And part of the whole ethos of sport is one of engaging in an activity that is healthy and encourages active lifestyle. Only the culture of most sport now, is one of being (and I am the worst hypocrite here) sat in an armchair, beer can open,beer belly bulging out from curry stained vest, shouting at a professional athelete because he is no good.

Unfortunately this culture of winner takes all is really one of the biggest problems. the media and the fans don't help. The money goes relentlessly in that direction also. Taking part graciously doesn't matter a damn. sstyle or sportsmanship. Its who won, how many medals did we get, how many trophies? Nor, does it encourage others to lead active lifestyles, take up sport, learn to develop comradeship, teamwork, a sense of fair play etc.

none of those things are rewarded. Of course fans are a part of this culture and I said myself, I just care who is the fastest. That's the problem in most athletics. Its one against one, hard to encourage anything other than a winner takes all mentality.

amphetamines are regularly given to fighter pilots, with similarly negative consequences - psychosis being a fairly regular side effect of the drug, not a mental state you want in someone so lavishly equipped to realise destruction.
 
I'm afraid that where baseball is concerned, steroid use was/is rampant and only now are they beginning to try and tackle the problem.
At least they are attempting to clean it up. The NFL appears to be wilfully blind to the steroid and HGH problem, while concentrating on the publicity cases of dope, dogfighting and alcohol. Plus the appalling history of medical hacks working for teams and signing off concussions as slight knocks.

(and if you think this forum goes negative when things aren't going well, you ought to take a look at the current meltdown on some of the Broncos boards....)
 
At least they are attempting to clean it up. The NFL appears to be wilfully blind to the steroid and HGH problem, while concentrating on the publicity cases of dope, dogfighting and alcohol. Plus the appalling history of medical hacks working for teams and signing off concussions as slight knocks.

(and if you think this forum goes negative when things aren't going well, you ought to take a look at the current meltdown on some of the Broncos boards....)

You're a Broncos fan? Wow, I wouldn't have guessed that.

Yeah, after that 41-3 loss to SD, I could imagine they'd be in full meltdown mode over there.
 
amphetamines are regularly given to fighter pilots, with similarly negative consequences - psychosis being a fairly regular side effect of the drug, not a mental state you want in someone so lavishly equipped to realise destruction.

there it is, the good old military, and research into providing an edge to front line personnel.

my primary issue is that if performance enhancers were allowed into sport, then not all athletes would have access to the best and the most well researched substances. therefore nations with the most money will be the nations which bring home the medals.

whoever has the best chemists wins.

that isnt sport.

i suppose though that taking potentially lethal substances that stress the body and the major organs is ok if you win, because with winning comes the money, and money allows the rich access to the best medical care there is.
 

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