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Tim Howard

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This is long. I'm sorry.

Now that we know Martinez plans on continuing with Howard despite his howlers costing 2 points on the weekend, I'd like to just make some observations and comparisons about different managers and their handling of keepers.

Firstly, briefly on Martinez and Howard (its been discussed to death on the Howard threads)-

If De Gea has single-handedly been responsible for Manchester United actually gaining points this season (don't we just know it, that Oviedo save), then Howard is the opposite- he has single-handedly cost Everton many points. So he's costing the players, the media is pointing fingers at him, and the fans are now turning on him in a big way. Yet Martinez chooses to persevere with him.

Now, in a pure distilled example of selection bias, I want to show why this is the wrong thing to do- using other managers' responses to keepers' bad form:

1) Sir Alex Ferguson and De Gea

ddg220113.jpg


Okay maybe not a great example because of different circumstances-
Young expensive foreign keeper in new expectant environment vs Old experienced comfortable keeper who hasn't had competition in about 10 years.
But to see how Ferguson deals with the situation, using the keepers as competition against one another. Well it clearly worked didn't it? Look at De Gea now.

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson admitted David De Gea was dropped for his mistake against Fulham.

Keeper De Gea was at fault for Fulham's second goal in United's 3-2 win last week and Anders Lindegaard took the gloves at Southampton.

'I think young David made a mistake last week (against Fulham),' Ferguson told Sky Sports.

'He knows it. 'With the form he's been in, he's been making some fantastic saves but one error like that could have cost us the game.

'It's just a learning process for him and he'll be back in a couple of weeks after the international break.

'Anders had his first game. I thought he was a little bit nervous at points but he's a very good keeper also. I don't think it's a big issue but it's something you have to deal with.'
Click to expand...


Having publicly announced at his press conference last Friday, prior to Saturday’s encounter with Blackburn Rovers at Old Trafford, that De Gea “will play tomorrow and Wednesday” after Lindegaard had kept successive clean sheets against Wigan Athletic and Fulham, Ferguson’s decision to drop his £18.3 million goalkeeper at Newcastle ensured that form alone would now dictate who would be in goal this season.

Until Wednesday, Ferguson had kept faith with De Gea and defended the 21 year-old in the face of widespread criticism following a series of costly mistakes at the beginning of the season, when the waiflike goalkeeper endured a rocky landing into English football.

But there comes a time when loyalty and public support becomes self-defeating and, after De Gea’s frailties – particularly when dealing with high balls – were exposed during the 3-2 defeat against Blackburn, Ferguson replaced the youngster with Lindegaard.
Click to expand...

Ok let's try someone a bit more similar to Howard


2) Pellegrini and Hart

_70868293_hart.jpg


Established as England's #1
Grows in arrogance, makes seriously costly mistakes, getting absolutely ripped apart by the media and fans.
Sounds a lot more familiar then.

This from a few seasons ago:

Manchester City manager Manuel Pellegrini defended his decision to drop Joe Hart for Saturday's victory over Norwich City and says he believes the England goalkeeper needs a rest.

Hart, 26, was named on the bench, with understudy Costel Pantilimon his replacement City won 7-0 at the Etihad.

"Joe needs a rest and it will be useful for him," Pellegrini told BBC Sport.

Hart's place in the City side had come under pressure after a number of errors in recent games.

They included mistakes in City's Champions League defeat by Bayern Munich in October and in England's victory over Scotland at Wembley in August.

"I thought about this the whole week," added Pellegrini.

"It was not easy to take this decision. Last time I was in doubt before the internationals but I thought that moment it was important to trust in Joe because the England team also needed him.

"At this moment we need a change. We are all behind him and try to recover him as soon as we can.

"I think Joe is a very important player, he is a great goalkeeper but everyone can have a bad moment in their career. He has it at this moment and I am sure he will improve with a bit of a rest."
Click to expand...


Oh my. That last line. Just take it in and replace Joe with Tim.
"I think Tim is a very important player, he is a great goalkeeper but everyone can have a bad moment in their career. He has it at this moment and I am sure he will improve with a bit of a rest."
How amazing does that look? It even talks about moments. Pure Martinez.

3) Rodgers and Mignolet

_79723229_mignoletap.jpg


I apologise for giving the creep credit but in all seriousness- he deserves it. He really does. Mignolet was horrific. He was even worse than Howard initially. He's now possibly en route to being statistically the best keeper this season. Everything is bleeding. I hate this.
Dropped in December for Brad Jones (WE HAVE PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT ROBLES? IMAGINE BRAD JONES BEING YOUR REPLACEMENT), this happened:

Goalkeeper Simon Mignolet has been dropped "indefinitely", says Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers.

Brad Jones replaced Belgian Mignolet for Sunday's 3-0 defeat against Manchester United and the Australian will retain his place for Wednesday's Capital One Cup tie at Bournemouth.

"I felt I had to change it because we have to find solutions throughout the squad to be better," said Rodgers.

"I said to Simon that it's for an indefinite period."

"Simon's been fine, he's a really good professional," said Rodgers. "I spoke to him the other day and he accepted it and understood it.

"It can sometimes happen to a keeper where you come out of the firing line and it can help you and allow you time to reflect."
Click to expand...


//

So ye. Drop him. Drop him Roberto. Drop him like you dropped Al-Habsi to win the FA Cup with Robles!

Joel Robles faces Wembley heartbreak with Ali Al Habsi set to get the nod to play in Saturday's FA Cup Final.

Wigan boss Roberto Martinez is expected to recall Al Habsi for the biggest game in the Latics' history against Manchester City, even though Robles has deposed him as No 1.

Martinez played the more experienced Al Habsi in the semi-final win over Millwall, which was his last appearance, and will rest the on-loan Robles for Arsenal on Tuesday.

"It depends because Joel is fully fit and remember Ali only lost his spot because he was not fully fit with his shoulder injury," said Martinez.

"I need to assess how Ali is and how in the three games we are going to approach them as a whole really.

"Joel is a young man and Ali is an experienced man. I don't think we could hope for better protection in goal."

Martinez is happy to have this rivalry between his keepers and would like to sign Robles permanently from Atletico Madrid if Wigan stay up.

"They are two goalkeepers, who in my eyes are phenomenal," he said. "I'm delighted that both are available for us. It's an incredible position to be in."

Martinez also revealed that Antolin Alcaraz has an outside chance of making Wembley and boosting his injury-hit defence - just three weeks after tearing his hamstring.
Click to expand...

Well. Well. Umm. Now I don't know what to believe anymore.
Sorry for this garbled mess.
 
The Hibbert Agenda said:
This is long. I'm sorry.

Now that we know Martinez plans on continuing with Howard despite his howlers costing 2 points on the weekend, I'd like to just make some observations and comparisons about different managers and their handling of keepers.

Firstly, briefly on Martinez and Howard (its been discussed to death on the Howard threads)-

If De Gea has single-handedly been responsible for Manchester United actually gaining points this season (don't we just know it, that Oviedo save), then Howard is the opposite- he has single-handedly cost Everton many points. So he's costing the players, the media is pointing fingers at him, and the fans are now turning on him in a big way. Yet Martinez chooses to persevere with him.

Now, in a pure distilled example of selection bias, I want to show why this is the wrong thing to do- using other managers' responses to keepers' bad form:

1) Sir Alex Ferguson and De Gea

ddg220113.jpg


Okay maybe not a great example because of different circumstances-
Young expensive foreign keeper in new expectant environment vs Old experienced comfortable keeper who hasn't had competition in about 10 years.
But to see how Ferguson deals with the situation, using the keepers as competition against one another. Well it clearly worked didn't it? Look at De Gea now.






Ok let's try someone a bit more similar to Howard


2) Pellegrini and Hart

_70868293_hart.jpg


Established as England's #1
Grows in arrogance, makes seriously costly mistakes, getting absolutely ripped apart by the media and fans.
Sounds a lot more familiar then.

This from a few seasons ago:




Oh my. That last line. Just take it in and replace Joe with Tim.
"I think Tim is a very important player, he is a great goalkeeper but everyone can have a bad moment in their career. He has it at this moment and I am sure he will improve with a bit of a rest."
How amazing does that look? It even talks about moments. Pure Martinez.

3) Rodgers and Mignolet

_79723229_mignoletap.jpg


I apologise for giving the creep credit but in all seriousness- he deserves it. He really does. Mignolet was horrific. He was even worse than Howard initially. He's now possibly en route to being statistically the best keeper this season. Everything is bleeding. I hate this.
Dropped in December for Brad Jones (WE HAVE PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT ROBLES? IMAGINE BRAD JONES BEING YOUR REPLACEMENT), this happened:




//

So ye. Drop him. Drop him Roberto. Drop him like you dropped Al-Habsi to win the FA Cup with Robles!



Well. Well. Umm. Now I don't know what to believe anymore.
Sorry for this garbled mess.
Click to expand...

And as has been mentioned on another thread, Catterick & West. Dropped like a stone if he lost form. Didn't seem to do him any harm.
 


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