Time To Break FFP?

[Tubey]

Maybe, but I’d say Everton are big enough to be in the group that is allowed to take the piss. We are a northern Spurs. I keep mentioning it, but being allowed to receive 30 million for first dibs on sponsoring an imaginary stadium really does give us some insight into what we will be allowed to get away with.

Until we're a threat. Then see what happens.

We're not a threat yet. They're perfectly happy for us to build up our FFP deficit until we finish top four.

Then conveniently you'll see an investigation launched.

The game is rigged mate.

 

[kenada_blue]

The statement .... "Did not disguise equity funding " is pretty self explanatory.

However , elsewhere in the CAS statement they say that some of the alledged breaches were time barred.

The full reasoning behind the CAS decision, has yet to be published so I think that it is too early to draw definitive conclusions.

True. But I'm sure UEFA had a longer period of time investigating City than CAS did to come to their ruling.

The idea that one organisation who set up the rules says the breached them...and another that had less time and no involvement in FFP rules suddenly say they're incorrect and overturns it, is very dubious IMO.

It's like having a set of house rules for kids that the Parents set up...only for another set of Parents to judge how they've been implemented.

 

[DaChunk]

Regarding the "we'll be the punished example shouts", GOOD let them try it on us, time Moshiri shows them how serious we are and unleashes his own army of lawyers. If we want to upset the status quo we have to be ruthless in all areas.

 

[Dymak]

Until we're a threat. Then see what happens.

We're not a threat yet. They're perfectly happy for us to build up our FFP deficit until we finish top four.

Then conveniently you'll see an investigation launched.

The game is rigged mate.

It is rigged, corrupt officials, VAR, dodgy cup draws etc.

But having Megafon match 3-mobile’s sponsorship of Chelsea at 40 million pound per year, for example. Nah, nobody’s challenging that, and if they are, good luck to them!

The desire has to be there though, as I said originally. Loads of owners love to hide behind FFP, and it will be no surprise if Moshiri or Usmanov is one of them.

 

[catcherintherye]

That is my reading of it mate, the bit i read on the ruling is as follows:


"As the charges with respect to any dishonest concealment of equity funding were clearly more significant violations than obstructing the CFCB's investigations, it was not appropriate to impose a ban on participating in UEFA's club competitions for MCFC's failure to co-operate with the CFCB's investigations alone.

"However, considering i) the financial resources of MCFC; ii) the importance of the cooperation of clubs in investigations conducted by the CFCB, because of its limited investigative means; and iii) MCFC's disregard of such principle and its obstruction of the investigations, the CAS Panel found that a significant fine should be imposed on MCFC and considered it appropriate to reduce UEFA's initial fine by 2/3, i.e. to the amount of EUR 10 million."

City were found in breach of FFP and that has been upheld. Uefa jumped the gun a bit in banning City for two years, based on them not playing ball with their investigation. The ruling this morning as i read it is not about a breach in FFP - which was upheld, but the ban on non co-operation with the investigation and the punishment of a two year ban not being proportionate, it was deemed not and reverted to a 10 mill fine, which isnt insignificant. The case isnt about FFP, more about the proportionality of punishment based on the variable of City not playing ball with Uefa in the investigation.

Im not sure its the smoking gun we are looking for on FFP. Rather CAS and UEFA are at odds on their implementation of harshness for restrictions for breaches. Just my read of it anyhow, im open minded about it however.

My understanding is UEFA's case was thrown out and rejected, but City were found guilty of with holding information (which they seem to accept).

Very rarely do you get a complete smoking gun, even at the time the Bosman case wasn't a smoking gun, but there are implications that grow from cases.

Essentially todays verdict suggests that everything UEFA charged City with is not guilty, but if a team with holds information then they can be prosecuted-not with a ban, or a huge fine, but a smaller fine than UEFA first imposed.

That is a substantial step, and it's why the BBC and former LFC/MUFC players are crying into their pints this morning.

 

[jazzy]

True. But I'm sure UEFA had a longer period of time investigating City than CAS did to come to their ruling.

The idea that one organisation who set up the rules says the breached them...and another that had less time and no involvement in FFP rules suddenly say they're incorrect and overturns it, is very dubious IMO.

It's like having a set of house rules for kids that the Parents set up...only for another set of Parents to judge how they've been implemented.

No I think you misunderstand

The funny thing with this is that if we do break FFP, we'll be the ones who are punished severely, and they make an example of us, or try out a new punishment on us

It may be that City's alledged breaches of FFP were historical .
So a much more recent breach of FFP can still be investigated and dealt with.
Think about it in this way;
In the English legal system you have 3 years from the date of an accident to bring a claim.
It doesn't matter how strong your case is , how obvious it is that you should be compensated , but if you issue the Court proceedings 1 day after 3 years from the date of the accident has elapsed your care is bound to fail.
That is what lawyers mean when they say a case is time barred.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

We wouldn't get away with it, because we're Everton

 

[catcherintherye]

City either DID NOT breach the rules , or if there was a breach UEFA were out of time for dealing with it.
This isn't rocket science

City did not break the rules.

 

[The binman chronicles]

We wouldn't get away with it, because we're Everton

This. I doubt we'd even challenge the ban in the first place. Just take the fine and ban like the good little club we are.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

City did not break the rules.

This isn’t strictly true. City highly likely did break the rules, what failed to happen was UEFA actually proving it, with sufficient evidence. UEFA banned them for their failure to comply with the investigation, and not on them having irrefutable evidence of wrong doing.

 

[kenada_blue]

No I think you misunderstand

It may be that City's alledged breaches of FFP were historical .
So a much more recent breach of FFP can still be investigated and dealt with.
Think about it in this way;
In the English legal system you have 3 years from the date of an accident to bring a claim.
It doesn't matter how strong your case is , how obvious it is that you should be compensated , but if you issue the Court proceedings 1 day after 3 years from the date of the accident has elapsed your care is bound to fail.
That is what lawyers mean when they say a case is time barred.

How so?

All I'm seeing is one saying one thing, then another governing body not associated overturning it.

So someone isn't doing their job properly. And in this case, it looks like UEFA.

Additionally have any other club gone to CAS on the back of a ruling due to FFP?

There just seems to be more than just "UEFA are wrong"

 

[DanEFC92]

We wouldn't get away with it, because we're Everton

We'd be the one who'd be made an example of. Heaviest punishment you can think of.

 

[catcherintherye]

This isn’t strictly true. City highly likely did break the rules, what failed to happen was UEFA actually proving it, with sufficient evidence. UEFA banned them for their failure to comply with the investigation, and not on them having irrefutable evidence of wrong doing.

Well if UEFA are unable to prove it, we live by the principle of innocent until guilty, right?

 

[catcherintherye]

Until we're a threat. Then see what happens.

We're not a threat yet. They're perfectly happy for us to build up our FFP deficit until we finish top four.

Then conveniently you'll see an investigation launched.

The game is rigged mate.

The irony is though, there is now a 5 year limit to what can be charged. It makes sense for the club to go for it now, and then if they get charged just drag it out legally again.

 

[matty1878]

There’s a million ways to fix this club and spending a load of money on players isn’t one of them.

Until we start a root and branch overhaul of the club from the academy, to the boardroom, up to the first team squad, something we should’ve done five years ago, things won’t change for the better.

when the team you have is crap it is. We will get it right City did we will.