Time To Break FFP?

[GwladysBlue]

FFP is the most rigged system anyone could imagine.

It’s like owning a house but somebody controlling how much money you can put into it to make improvements due to the area it is situated in.

 

[catcherintherye]

Its not about fair market value, from what ive seen its straight up lying about where the money came from.

I dont see wholesale changes personally.

Usmanov has just given us 30m to be first in a race that nobody else has even entered yet. Big Ali and Mosh arent even playing the same game as UEFA.

Well it was both. The initial fine was the sponsorship was too high. Further investigation stated it was do high because the owner was paying most of the money (or so they felt).

What CAS have shown today, was the assumptions UEFA made on fraud and market value dont stand up in a court of law.

For them to be able to impose fines etc on any club moving forward, it would need to be a qualitatively clearer breach than Citys. That would be hard to do, as City almost went out of their way to seemingly break the rules, in the hope they would facilitate this situation.

Maybe UEFA will try to save face and try to stick.to FFP for a bit. But this is as significant as the bosman situation, where clubs could no longer demand fees. Their days of charging teams for breaches relating to sponsorship (though in honesty with anything else) are now long gone.

If your Usmanov, sponsor Everton how you want, when you want, for as much as you want, and theres nothing they can do about it.

 

[brieverton]

We're so far from the level required for Europe that it might be time to take the 1 year ban and break FFP.

Do you agree?

I do think its time to end the closed cartel that is FFP but even if that were to come about (and it won't) I don't think it would herald a huge spending spree by our standards anyway.

Our recent spending whilst significant for us was still very modest when compared to the super clubs. And let's not forget we wasted most of that investment quite spectacularly.

The indications from Brands would suggest that spending will have to be managed rather than profligate.

We absolutely must focus on eliminating wastage and signing players who truly prove to be value for money.

Money helps, of course it does, but a relative lack of it doesn't mean we cannot compete.

We could be much better off today on a fraction of the outlay if so many mistakes weren't made.

 

[catcherintherye]

I do think its time to end the closed cartel that is FFP but even if that were to come about (and it won't) I don't think it would herald a huge spending spree by our standards anyway.

Our recent spending whilst significant for us was still very modest when compared to the super clubs. And let's not forget we wasted most of that investment quite spectacularly.

The indications from Brands would suggest that spending will have to be managed rather than profligate.

We absolutely must focus on eliminating wastage and signing players who truly prove to be value for money.

Money helps, of course it does, but a relative lack of it doesn't mean we cannot compete.

We could be much better off today on a fraction of the outlay if so many mistakes weren't made.

Brands is saying what he is because of FFP though.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Whatever happened to the Premier League investing USM’s £30m down payment on the stadium naming rights?

They can shove that investigation up their arse, too.

 

[Goat]

Well it was both. The initial fine was the sponsorship was too high. Further investigation stated it was do high because the owner was paying most of the money (or so they felt).

What CAS have shown today, was the assumptions UEFA made on fraud and market value dont stand up in a court of law.

For them to be able to impose fines etc on any club moving forward, it would need to be a qualitatively clearer breach than Citys. That would be hard to do, as City almost went out of their way to seemingly break the rules, in the hope they would facilitate this situation.

Maybe UEFA will try to save face and try to stick.to FFP for a bit. But this is as significant as the bosman situation, where clubs could no longer demand fees. Their days of charging teams for breaches relating to sponsorship (though in honesty with anything else) are now long gone.

If your Usmanov, sponsor Everton how you want, when you want, for as much as you want, and theres nothing they can do about it.

Well im going to wait for the ruling before I assume that pluckly little City have taken down the evil UEFA cartel.

But im fairly confident nothing will change even after the ruling.

I mean you only to read the evidence to see City broke the rules. Its like saying OJ was innocent cos he got acquitted.

 

[orly]

Couldn't we ask another club to pretend we sold them Gylfi and Davies for £50m each????



HAHAHAHHAHAHAH NO ONE IS GOING TO BELIEVE THAT ARE THEY HAHAHHAHAA LADS @Baines' left foot

 

[brieverton]

Brands is saying what he is because of FFP though.

It would suit the club to take that line anyway.

We'll spend, but I wouldn't expect anything extravagant.

Moshiri is a people-pleaser, or tries to be. Privately he must have been horrified long ago at what a hatchet job has been made of transfers here.

He has to find some accomodation between backing Ancelotti and not having to look for cash down the back of the sofa.

That makes for an interesting window and emphasises the focus has to be on spending right, not merely spending.

 

[catcherintherye]

Well im going to wait for the ruling before I assume that pluckly little City have taken down the evil UEFA cartel.

But im fairly confident nothing will change even after the ruling.

I mean you only to read the evidence to see City broke the rules. Its like saying OJ was innocent cos he got acquitted.

I think we are discussing different.

I dont think its plucky little City. Nor do I think there will be a big revelation from UEFA. They will try business as usual. However they cant enforce their own rules, so it's open season.

I dont think the OJ Simpson case is a good comparison either mate.

 

[Goat]

I think we are discussing different.

I dont think its plucky little City. Nor do I think there will be a big revelation from UEFA. They will try business as usual. However they cant enforce their own rules, so it's open season.

I dont think the OJ Simpson case is a good comparison either mate.

You seem to think UEFA will run away and not fight another day.

This case is more complex than just fair market value, its about mostly fraud and lying in their accounts. Something they are VERY guilty of.

It wont be open season and I think its quite dangerous to assume FFP will be scrapped due to this 1 case.

But as I say, lets wait for the actual ruling rather than some fella on twitter claiming its over and the allies defeated the axis.

 

[matty1878]

It would suit the club to take that line anyway.

We'll spend, but I wouldn't expect anything extravagant.

Moshiri is a people-pleaser, or tries to be. Privately he must have been horrified long ago at what a hatchet job has been made of transfers here.

He has to find some accomodation between backing Ancelotti and not having to look for cash down the back of the sofa.

That makes for an interesting window and emphasises the focus has to be on spending right, not merely spending.

look down the back of the couch? It’s not BK you know lad

 

[catcherintherye]

You seem to think UEFA will run away and not fight another day.

This case is more complex than just fair market value, its about mostly fraud and lying in their accounts. Something they are VERY guilty of.

It wont be open season and I think its quite dangerous to assume FFP will be scrapped due to this 1 case.

But as I say, lets wait for the actual ruling rather than some fella on twitter claiming its over and the allies defeated the axis.

I am obviously working to the premise they are cleared, if they are not it's a different situation.

I have no idea how UEFA fight another day. It would be like saying clubs will not just lie down post Bosman. The games up. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, but the rules cant be enforced.

They could have tried to modify the system before this case. I did state it would have be sensible for them to explore rather than go the court. In fairness I think City made it hard for them too.

 

[Tipp blue]

City have never openly exploited FFP.

The reason they have been banned currently is down to fraud.

There are loads of ways around FFP, you can see it all around Goodison, that's my point, why would we need to break it when we can just continue to bend it?

Last accounts showed a 100 million plus loss, 4th highest loss in PL history. The mammoth wages we've been giving to poor players combined with laughable transfer fees for said players is causing us this grief. If we have to try and bend enough to cover that then it will break.... Can't make it too obvious what's going on either.
Maybe the club could set up a go fund me account and Usmanov can back us anonymously.... Anonymous has donated 156 million pounds.

 

[Tipp blue]

These are UEFA rules and have no place in law, really if we wanted we could spend a billion this summer and challenge and fine/ban in courts and there would only be one winner.
Legally a body can't stop investment in a company trying to improve itself.
Blast the cash and bring them to court if they try and stop us.

 

[BNJ1878]

Couldn't we ask another club to pretend we sold them Gylfi and Davies for £50m each????



HAHAHAHHAHAHAH NO ONE IS GOING TO BELIEVE THAT ARE THEY HAHAHHAHAA LADS @Baines' left foot

Good thread on twitter a few days ago explaining the Arthur (I think that's who it was) move from Barca to Juve for 70 odd mil, and another player going the other way for 60 ish. It allows both sets of accounts to show a very healthy profit in the books.