Times article, Burnley/Leeds threaten to sue Everton

[Tin-Tin]

We are claiming that there are unique uncrystalised losses due to Covid. In lay terms yes, that players we could have sold, lost value due to a shortage of cash. All of which is very reasonable. You can argue the extent to which it impacted, but the premise is reasonable.

These claims have been independently calculated, and then independently signed off by professionals (although there is not a mention of the specific number).

The PL have also accepted these accounts, and stated we did not breach FFP.

So are we being creative then? As surely Villa who are also pushing the limits would have done similar. Do you think they just didnt think of doing the same?

 

[catcherintherye]

I think they're considering opening a case against both which, if anything, makes it harder for them, because the PL won't admit they were wrong easily. Which, if the accounts have been independently audited - which they will have had to have been - then they won't have done anything wrong.

The PL don't want anyone to go bust or fall foul of the rules they'd have offered the same help.

Everton basically went to the Prem in 2020 and said here fellas, we know we've messed up, we're right on the brink, how can we fix this and stay within your rules.

I cant see any case they can have against Everton really.

The fact we have worked closely with the PL stands in our favour, and essentially means they act as a shield for us.

As you say, these accounts have been independently audited by 2 separate, independent legal/financial experts. So it would need to be established, that both those groups (the PL & EFCs) firms made a mistake.

 

[BlueToff]

Yes but thats what other clubs have reported and they have come in at £50m (Newcastle) to £65m (Villa).

I think ours is that much as we are trying to say players lost value due to covid as all potential buyers were losing money. I think!

And Newcastle and Villa aren't paying for new stadiums either

But yes I think the players value loss is perhaps what they used.

I also don't see why they're using Villa and Newcastle as yard sticks. Villa were a championship club for 1 of the 3 years and Newcastle were run by a bloke who famously spent no money.

 

[blue to the bone]

I preferred the relegation thread. Much more entertaining

 

[Tin-Tin]

And Newcastle and Villa aren't paying for new stadiums either

But yes I think the players value loss is perhaps what they used.

I also don't see why they're using Villa and Newcastle as yard sticks. Villa were a championship club for 1 of the 3 years and Newcastle were run by a bloke who famously spent no money.

That must have been a chunk

 

[Neiler]

Yes.

The club has been working closely with the PL. The PL have had all the evidence, and have signed off on the accounts, being under the PL limit.

Maybe they have made a mistake. But that is their mistake now. We cannot take any blame for that, having complied with their rules as we understood them.

I’m not concerned at all mate

I said it back when our accounts were released mate, the PL have oversight of our budget, we need to run deals by them and have them sanctioned, since they got our accounts in March 20. It’s why we spent so little last summer, we were on the bold step and told to get our house in order. That in itself is a sanction by the PL in their rules I.e. limits on budgets and transfers. You can’t say it hasn’t been impactful either given the season we’ve had.

We’ve complied and worked with the PL constantly once we’ve done that we’re in the clear.

You will see they wrote to the PL after our second Leicester game, I think they have a response from the PL, both Leeds and Burnley I suspect have a response and this has been leaked today. Both Leeds and Burnley refused to comment today and we came out strongly, we’ve clearly been told by the PL that we’re in the clear.

As I say above once we’ve worked with and complied with the PL, we’ve nothing to worry about the beef is with the PL and their application of the rules. Not our issue.

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

The PL have also accepted these accounts, and stated we did not breach FFP.

Have the PL actually commented on our compliance, or is that an assumption based on their silence (and us not being punished in any way)?

There is a bit of confusion in here about the accounts being audited so it’s all fine. Audited accounts are fact, but on their own the accounts just show massive losses. The justification for the Covid costs which we assume the PL have accepted have been guided by auditors. They have in no way been subject to statutory audit.

 

[catcherintherye]

So are we being creative then? As surely Villa who are also pushing the limits would have done similar. Do you think they just didnt think of doing the same?

Basically yes.

We have been working closely with the PL for some time and appear to have built a relationship.

Against the club, we have introduced new aspects to the accounts. It's a new precedent. Counting lost transfer value. The hardest bit for the club would have been getting the PL to accept it. As had they not, it would have been down for EFC to prove it, perhaps in court.

The wider argument though, is that these rules do not make any sense outside of football. Theres a reason City, who breached the rules far more obviously just went to CAS, and won easily. Because the rules are not consistent with business law/practice.

It's not uncommon for 1 off items to be put on accounts. Or for write offs, or write downs to occur. A company has the flexibility to do all of this, as its primary function is not to please some bureaucrat in a suit, but to justify itself to its shareholders. As long as its not fraudulent, you are basically fine to do as you please. Write downs are not uncommon.

Unfortunately the people who run football are a mixture of incompetent, stupid and arrogant, and think they can regulate things that are normal practices in business.

 

[catcherintherye]

And Newcastle and Villa aren't paying for new stadiums either

But yes I think the players value loss is perhaps what they used.

I also don't see why they're using Villa and Newcastle as yard sticks. Villa were a championship club for 1 of the 3 years and Newcastle were run by a bloke who famously spent no money.

They used a mix of stadium, and largely loss of player value.

 

[Neiler]

Which will only strengthen the case really. They would have to prove, above what independent experts in the field would say, what a reasonable expense would be.

Business incur expenses all the time, particularly during once in a lifetime shocks. None of that is in any way surprising.

An auditor would have been on to the PL and getting exact details of what was allowable, I doubt many clubs went to the hassle. We used it to our advantage and we’re opportunistic, others didn’t bother. There will be a big paper trail auditors take no chances.

We actually came in at 84 mill, out of 105. lol

 

[kenada_blue]

Yes but thats what other clubs have reported and they have come in at £50m (Newcastle) to £65m (Villa).

I think ours is that much as we are trying to say players lost value due to covid as all potential buyers were losing money. I think!

Yep. We have book values for players that disminished because we couldn't sell them at the value the market was at pre covid.

The idea we spent loads on players is the reason why they're high - see City, Chelsea, United all claiming £100mill of losses and them being, surprise surprise, the big spenders in the league.

So when Leeds and Newcastle claim £40-50mill in covid losses...its because they've spent nothing and don't have assets (players) to claim against.

 

[catcherintherye]

I’m not concerned at all mate

I said it back when our accounts were released mate, the PL have oversight of our budget, we need to run deals by them and have them sanctioned, since they got our accounts in March 20. It’s why we spent so little last summer, we were on the bold step and told to get our house in order. That in itself is a sanction by the PL in their rules I.e. limits on budgets and transfers. You can’t say it hasn’t been impactful either given the season we’ve had.

We’ve complied and worked with the PL constantly once we’ve done that we’re in the clear.

You will see they wrote to the PL after our second Leicester game, I think they have a response from the PL, both Leeds and Burnley I suspect have a response and this has been leaked today. Both Leeds and Burnley refused to comment today and we came out strongly, we’ve clearly been told by the PL that we’re in the clear.

As I say above once we’ve worked with and complied with the PL, we’ve nothing to worry about the beef is with the PL and their application of the rules. Not our issue.

The fact the PL had this request, for a special "independent" (what that would mean in this context, and how the PL are not."independent" in this instance would intrigue me) commission to look at this has been in 7-10 days with both response says to me they have little interest.

I think one/both of Burnley/Leeds have panicked and leaked it, and mentioned a bit about suing. They will be trying to exert pressure.

I slate the club a lot, but it's a firm rebuttal from them. They are either on a massive bluff with that, or more likely they have been told they are in the clear (which computed with all other available evidence).

 

[catcherintherye]

An auditor would have been on to the PL and getting exact details of what was allowable, I doubt many clubs went to the hassle. We used it to our advantage and we’re opportunistic, others didn’t bother. There will be a big paper trail auditors take no chances.

We actually came in at 84 mill, out of 105. lol

Yes it just adds further credibility. I dont know if they used the same firm, but it may be additional expert opinion, that adds further corroboration.

In a legal sense, Leeds/Burnley have to prove all these people got it wrong. I cant imagine that will be easy to do. I mean the premise that we lost business, and trade was effected by a pandemic is not a huge reach.

 

[arch stanton]

this will take years to go through the legal system, there's too much at stake to not defend it, it will cost everyone lots of money and the result will be ages away. Paper talk, nowt in this, but we are the bitter ones (well we are a bit)

 

[Matelot]

Lads, we have nothing to worry about….this is the lawyer/auditor who signed off our accounts. We got this.