Times article, Burnley/Leeds threaten to sue Everton

[everton fan number one]

This is just so unbelievably laughable. Its just a complete none starter. Even supposing that there was a case for us to answer (unfortunately for the two cryarses there isn't!?) it would never get off the ground anyway because the second that Sunday is over and one of Leeds or Burnley become confirmed safe they will 100% lose interest and forget the whole thing. They will have zero interest in pursuing a long, drawn-out and expensive legal battle that they're 100% guaranteed to lose anyway! No, I'm happy to say that this nonsense is quite simply PR work from these clubs for the benefit of their fans and nothing more. Their impotent rage and blind flailing and screeching is an utter joy to behold!

Spot on

 

[catcherintherye]

The sanctions are at section W, and apply for any breach of the rules, E15 is an additional extra power the Prem has.

But given no breach has occurred, section E is more relevant than section W.

Everything that has been reported suggests that we are at section E, have probably entered voluntarily before any breaches have occurred.

If we were to fail, the earliest it could be, would be next year. Given it's a 1st offence, and there is the caveat of a worldwide recession and pandemic, its likely a soft touch sanction would apply (a warning/fine) in the first instance.

I'd suggest the club could probably overturn that in a court, as City did with FFP, but that's a slight divergence.

 

[Yarrgh]

I'm indifferent to them.

I'm just puzzled as to why they seem to hate us.

I've seen quite a few references to "Scouse Mackems" as well, which I find strange too, given Sunderland have won the league more times than them.

Scouse = from Liverpool
Mackem = better than jawdee.

Scouse mackem = someone from Liverpool who is better than a jawdee.

 

[catcherintherye]

The funny thing is most Leeds and Burnley fans dont seem that arsed judging from what I've seen online.

Weirdly its mainly Newcastle fans trying to create a false rilvary with us. Seen two articles pop up by them since yesterday about it.

@catcherintherye you noticed the sudden weird obsession from the fat Geordie whoppers on twitter mate?

I havent really mate.

Most of them dont really understand what is happening, and that no breach has happened.

It's really funny, as they will likely breach rules soon. They're too thick to realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[davek]

But given no breach has occurred, section E is more relevant than section W.

Everything that has been reported suggests that we are at section E, have probably entered voluntarily before any breaches have occurred.

If we were to fail, the earliest it could be, would be next year. Given it's a 1st offence, and there is the caveat of a worldwide recession and pandemic, its likely a soft touch sanction would apply (a warning/fine) in the first instance.

I'd suggest the club could probably overturn that in a court, as City did with FFP, but that's a slight divergence.

The whole thing is utterly preposterous.

The danger is that fans get caught up in this and it spoils the relief they all feel about avoiding relegation. That is the only downside to this.

If Everton were threatened with a deduction or even fine then the whole of top flight football will implode with us. That's why no PL club have ever been deducted points. The circus would end up in court...the last place ANY of the PL clubs and the PL itself want to be.

This is a yank owner of a football club looking for a financial sweetener....because that's all it can be.

 

[efcforever]

Didn't Leeds pull something similar when they were in League One the first season?

They started with a 15 point deduction bit finished 3rd (if I remember correctly). Once automatic promotion was no longer possible they started kicking off about the points deduction. They are just sore losers!

I knew a Leeds fan at the time who told me there was a Leeds fanzine (might even have been in the match day program) that each week published an alternate league table without the points deduction.

Alternative league tables? Now who does that remind you of?

 

[johnjoeefc]

Just listened to that whopper who made the claims in the Times. Ziegler or whatever he's called on talksport. Basically said clubs are unhappy how much Everton spent and were allowed to spend in January. Bbc said this as well. Claiming we spent 70 million on Patterson, mykolenko and alli.

But we actually effectively spent nothing as all signings were as a result of the money received from the Digne sale. We did not spend anything near 70 million but lazy journalism from them is basically suggesting we bought Alli for 40 million. Where we in fact probably have spent 5-10 million max so far on Alli if that.

Its just a load of utter waffle.

Let's consider this worst case circumstance, Everton get a 6 points deduction at the start of next season for showing too much debt. So then Everton decide its unfair because they had already been given their punishment because the rules state that their finances will be controlled by a moderator should they exceed profit and sustainability rules. Everton then take the Premier league to court over unfair punishment that doesn't comply with their rules. The whole thing becomes an absolute joke.

This thread might as well be closed because really the whole thing is laughable and a non starter. It's click bait from the media.

 

[everton fan number one]

But given no breach has occurred, section E is more relevant than section W.

Everything that has been reported suggests that we are at section E, have probably entered voluntarily before any breaches have occurred.

If we were to fail, the earliest it could be, would be next year. Given it's a 1st offence, and there is the caveat of a worldwide recession and pandemic, its likely a soft touch sanction would apply (a warning/fine) in the first instance.

I'd suggest the club could probably overturn that in a court, as City did with FFP, but that's a slight divergence.

The issue is the powers to agree a budget with the club under e.15 are in addition to the requirement to keep within the financial limits under the earlier part of Part E.

Notwithstanding the fact that a budget may be required, the PL still has the power W to sanction any breach of accounting rules by way of the sanctions stated under W.

The ability for the Prem to appoint a commission is separate to e.15 which is why Leeds and Burnley are asking for one.

Where 15.E is relevant is that it may show the Prem have already considered whether or not to puruse further sanctions, having acquired the necessary further information under 15.E ( and agreed a budget in lieu if this has happnened), therefore an Abitrator would be likely to find the matter has been properly repsonded to in accordance with the contract.

The fact that E.15 has been used as such does not exclude further action under W however.

 

[catcherintherye]

Just listened to that whopper who made the claims in the Times. Ziegler or whatever he's called on talksport. Basically said clubs are unhappy how much Everton spent and were allowed to spend in January. Bbc said this as well. Claiming we spent 70 million on Patterson, mykolenko and alli.

But we actually effectively spent nothing as all signings were as a result of the money received from the Digne sale. We did not spend anything near 70 million but lazy journalism from them is basically suggesting we bought Alli for 40 million. Where we in fact probably have spent 5-10 million max so far on Alli if that.

Its just a load of utter waffle.

Let's consider this worst case circumstance, Everton get a 6 points deduction at the start of next season for showing too much debt. So then Everton decide its unfair because they had already been given their punishment because the rules state that their finances will be controlled by a moderator should they exceed profit and sustainability rules. Everton then take the Premier league to court over unfair punishment that doesn't comply with their rules. The whole thing becomes an absolute joke.

This thread might as well be closed because really the whole thing is laughable and a non starter. It's click bait from the media.

If that's what hes said, it shows how ignorant he is, and they are.

The January spend, plays absolutely 0 relation to the accounts that may have breached FFP (though have been agreed formally that havent). It has no relevance. They would only show in next years numbers.

You've got blokes like him, stirring up nonsense, who dont even know the basics of what calendar year spend falls in. And we are expected to take his judgement of whether accounts are in breach, or not, more seriously than accountants who's job it is to make that judgement. Honestly you couldn't write it.

 

[degsy]

Didn't Leeds pull something similar when they were in League One the first season?

They started with a 15 point deduction bit finished 3rd (if I remember correctly). Once automatic promotion was no longer possible they started kicking off about the points deduction. They are just sore losers!

I knew a Leeds fan at the time who told me there was a Leeds fanzine (might even have been in the match day program) that each week published an alternate league table without the points deduction.

Alternative league tables? Now who does that remind you of?

They fly under the radar but they're bigger kopites than the barcodes.
'By their friends shall ye know them!'
Back in the day when Leeds and the rs were going neck and neck, the supporters of each used to have reciprocal visits to each others social clubs and pubs.
St Ambrose in Speke was 1 and I known that for a fact.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Awww poor little Leeds and Burnley, so full of self-righteous fury and impotent rage........

 

[catcherintherye]

The issue is the powers to agree a budget with the club under e.15 are in addition to the requirement to keep within the financial limits under the earlier part of Part E.

Notwithstanding the fact that a budget may be required, the PL still has the power W to sanction any breach of accounting rules by way of the sanctions stated under W.

The ability for the Prem to appoint a commission is separate to e.15 which is why Leeds and Burnley are asking for one.

Where 15.E is relevant is that it may show the Prem have already considered whether or not to puruse further sanctions, having acquired the necessary further information under 15.E ( and agreed a budget in lieu if this has happnened), therefore an Abitrator would be likely to find the matter has been properly repsonded to in accordance with the contract.

The fact that E.15 has been used as such does not exclude further action under W however.

No it does not.

And we do not know, formally whether than has been invoked. Theres nothing official to say it has, though it looks like both parties have unofficially decided to follow its guidance.

In that circumstance, or indeed if it were deemed as the punishment for an offence (which crucially to date has not occurred) I would say it would be unusual you would do punishment E, and then punishment W, especially if the club was showing willing to follow E, which given what has happened certainly seems to be the case.

Why have those rules in, if you would override them?

The other critical point, is to date, no breach has happened. So E, W or any other permutations have no relevance until that is established. Everton have shown losses under the permitted level, have had those accounts signed off as legitimate, and we have been told the PL have also signed them off as acceptable, having been given the full working of the uncrystalised losses.

If the PL wanted to punish the club in this season, it would need to have raised that the breaches have been failed within this season. There are 24 hours to go to do that. After that, really any punitive punishment would be next season (of which there is a range of options, with points deductions being at the sharp end).

I should add, I am not sure what would prompt such a U turn from the PL, and I am doubtful it would hold up in a court. Businesses are allowed to do write downs. That is perfectly normal practice, especially in the midst of a global pandemic.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I wonder if we win or draw tomorrow/finish 15th whether this becomes even more frivolous.

 

[brieverton]

The whole thing is utterly preposterous.

The danger is that fans get caught up in this and it spoils the relief they all feel about avoiding relegation. That is the only downside to this.

If Everton were threatened with a deduction or even fine then the whole of top flight football will implode with us. That's why no PL club have ever been deducted points. The circus would end up in court...the last place ANY of the PL clubs and the PL itself want to be.

This is a yank owner of a football club looking for a financial sweetener....because that's all it can be.

It's getting tedious already. The last few weeks have been exhausting for us all. I understand people's unease as anxiety seems to be a default state for Evertonians now.

We should give ourselves a break. Lampard and co. won't be worried about this, and we certainly shouldn't let Burnley or Leeds get into our headspace.

Football at this level is an ugly, dirty business. There are no white knights. It will continue in this fashion and this nonsense will be shut down soon enough.

 

[MikeH72]

I wonder if we win or draw tomorrow/finish 15th whether this becomes even more frivolous.

I’m sure they’ll find something to sue Southampton for.