Today’s Football 2020/21 Season

[mightymoyes]

We were in a relegation battle, 13th flattered us, koeman did his best to relegate us

And anyone could have improved us, nothing to thank fat Sam for

 

[ChesterBlue]

So she gets a pass because she's female?

Doesn't sound very equal to me.

No, she’s perfectly fine to criticise, but massively provoking abuse is seriously uncool.

Go look under that tweet by Leeds to tell me if 90% of the tweets in response to it are okay, and reasonable, or are outright abusive.

There is wider context to this than just football punditry, as football doesn’t exist in a bubble, same as racism incidents in football do not occur in a bubble and wider society does have a bearing on this, and the internet has became increasingly unkind to women by and large, having leading politicians mocking victims of sexual assaults, making comments about their looks, and being incredibly condescending to women has not helped and has fostered a really dangerous culture.

Leeds have willingly played into this behaviour by specifically targeting a female pundit for doing her job, and having their owner double down on the abuse.

 

[RomanReigns]

She can have whatever opinion she wants to have but if she wants to share it on TV then you have to accept some backlash, even the very best pundits have people come after them when they've spoke nothing but sense as far as the neutral is concerned.

You can't be a pundit who criticises yet expect kid-gloves treatment in return. It's one of the reasons Arsene Wenger apparently turned down a big deal to join Sky after leaving Arsenal, he doesn't like the tone of the punditry. They never just marvel at how great something was or give praise out to outstanding players, the focus is always "he did this wrong" and "as a club they should be doing this" or words to that effect. It's always negative, never positive.

Roy Keane said that Everton’s win at spurs is nothing special because every team beats spurs nowadays and Jamie Carragher said he’s not seen a player spend more time on the ground than richarlison.

I would argue that their comments are 10 times worse than what she said about Leeds but she is getting 50 times more backlash than them.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

No, she’s perfectly fine to criticise, but massively provoking abuse is seriously uncool.

Go look under that tweet by Leeds to tell me if 90% of the tweets in response to it are okay, and reasonable, or are outright abusive.

There is wider context to this than just football punditry, as football doesn’t exist in a bubble, same as racism incidents in football do not occur in a bubble and wider society does have a bearing on this’d and the internet has became increasingly unkind to women by and large, having leading politicians mocking victims of sexual assaults, making comments about their looks, and being incredibly condescending to women has not helped and has fostered a really dangerous culture.

Leeds have willingly played into this behaviour by specifically targeting a female pundit for doing her job, and having their owner double down on the abuse.

Apparently they've criticised other pundits before on there who aren't female. I don't use twitter myself but if that's true then I don't see the problem in them doing it with her.

I wouldn't want to see Everton doing it because I wouldn't want to let them think they are worthy of a response, if we did it for one then do it for all.

I think if a tweet is deemed as hate speech then the user can be suspended or even prosecuted is that not correct?

I don't think Leeds or anyone else should have to moderate their approach based on the sex/gender/race/age etc of the person. That's equality in action.

 

[ChesterBlue]

Apparently they've criticised other pundits before on there who aren't female. I don't use twitter myself but if that's true then I don't see the problem in them doing it with her.

I wouldn't want to see Everton doing it because I wouldn't want to let them think they are worthy of a response, if we did it for one then do it for all.

I think if a tweet is deemed as hate speech then the user can be suspended or even prosecuted is that not correct?

I don't think Leeds or anyone else should have to moderate their approach based on the sex/gender/race/age etc of the person. That's equality in action.

I get your point mate, but I do think it’s a bit of a utopian view, yes they could do that were there no wider context further than “football pundit said stupid thing” but as I say, specifically highlighting certain groups (in this case a female pundit) to certain groups (in this situation football fans) is more often than not going to end in abuse. We’ve all seen public posts regarding women’s football and seen tonnes of comments mocking them about making sandwiches etc

 

[Ring master]

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I get your point mate, but I do think it’s a bit of a utopian view, yes they could do that were there no wider context further than “football pundit said stupid thing” but as I say, specifically highlighting certain groups (in this case a female pundit) to certain groups (in this situation football fans) is more often than not going to end in abuse. We’ve all seen public posts regarding women’s football and seen tonnes of comments mocking them about making sandwiches etc

True but what if you were to stop criticism of a black pundit in case they suffered racial abuse.

Critise as they would normally I think and any subsequent abuse should be dealt with by the letter of the law.

 

[H.H.]

The FA have a decision to make here, and quickly. Given the rising number of covid cases uk wide, I would have thought it’s entirely possible the whole season’s going to be abandoned.

I think it was about 24hrs ago that Fulham announced that some of their staff have the virus and with less than 4 hours until K.O. the P/L still haven't announced if the game is going ahead.

 

[Alan Whittle]

I get your point mate, but I do think it’s a bit of a utopian view, yes they could do that were there no wider context further than “football pundit said stupid thing” but as I say, specifically highlighting certain groups (in this case a female pundit) to certain groups (in this situation football fans) is more often than not going to end in abuse. We’ve all seen public posts regarding women’s football and seen tonnes of comments mocking them about making sandwiches etc

Yes, and all of those are wrong but here, specifically in this case, a professional pundit said something quite ridiculous and has been pulled up on it. Nothing else. Leeds response did not mention gender and it is impossible to say whether they would or wouldn’t have responded in exactly the same way had the pundit spouting that nonsense was a man. Criticise the follow on tweets by all means if they are in any way misogynistic or abusive but the Leeds one wasn’t and they surely have a right of reply.

 

[H.H.]

True but what if you were to stop criticism of a black pundit in case they suffered racial abuse.

Critise as they would normally I think and any subsequent abuse should be dealt with by the letter of the law.

Clinton Morrison.
As he cannot string a sentence together I have no idea why he is regularly a Sky pundit.

 

[MikeH72]

Reckon this will go something like last season when all the relegation threatened clubs tried to get the season cancelled by saying they had loads of covid cases.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Clinton Morrison.
As he cannot string a sentence together I have no idea why he is regularly a Sky pundit.

Don't mind Morrison myself. He has the feel of a fan watching a game with no agenda, similar to but not as entertaining as Micah Richards.

I'd take more people like this and less corporate bores personally.

 

[ChesterBlue]

True but what if you were to stop criticism of a black pundit in case they suffered racial abuse.

Critise as they would normally I think and any subsequent abuse should be dealt with by the letter of the law.

Again mate I agree with your sentiment, but unfortunately Twitter is notorious for this kind of behaviour towards women, and people who aren’t white. Leeds have wittingly, or unwittingly fanned the flames unnecessarily in this case

 

[H.H.]

Don't mind Morrison myself. He has the feel of a fan watching a game with no agenda, similar to but not as entertaining as Micah Richards.

I'd take more people like this and less corporate bores personally.

I also like Micah Richards, he is a "fresh" type of pundit.
Whether or not I agree with what they say, I prefer to listen to a pundit that I can actually understand and not one who sometimes makes me turn off.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Again mate I agree with your sentiment, but unfortunately Twitter is notorious for this kind of behaviour towards women, and people who aren’t white. Leeds have wittingly, or unwittingly fanned the flames unnecessarily in this case

Although if it is their MO to use twitter to attempt to lambast or ridicule pundits then withholding criticism based on the sex of a pundit could fuel myoginists grievances leading to abuse down the line.

There's no perfect answer. The idiots who would abuse someone based on their sex are the problem though and not criticising a pundit for their footballing opinion does not solve that to me.

Allow everyone or noone to be criticised. Personally I prefer everyone.