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VAR

I’m convinced he gave that yesterday because there was nothing really riding on it for us and this much hyped up final day would have looked a little silly had Arsenal not done their job and gone out and won the game. It was a scandalous decision from someone considered to be the best ref we have, it defied all logic.

I think the discussion about keeping or scrapping VAR to be completely moot. The key problem is six clubs get almost all of the decisions, and on the incredibly rare occasion they don’t get something in their favour their media agents create an almighty stink that sucks all of the oxygen away from the other 14 clubs who have to put up with this nonsense every week - like Arsenal did when they lost to Newcastle earlier this season.

Until the league is dramatically rebalanced, this will continue whether VAR is in place or not. I’m inclined to want VAR to continue as at least it places the league’s obvious agendas under a greater microscope, like watching that dope Oliver watch his own howler six times in front of a screen before deciding to double done on his own ineptitude.
 
Legalised match fixing - people need to get their heads out of their asses if they think otherwise.

The ridiculous argument that because the clown Oliver didn’t give handball prior to VAR, and then subsequently after a video review of Jesus pushing the ball into his intended path with his arm,decided that it still wasn’t a handball, is just disgusting and treats every football fan with utter contempt. The whole sly/media shambles is a joke - they don’t even call it out properly.

It’s an absolutely scandalous bent decision.
 
toffee-L said:
I’m convinced he gave that yesterday because there was nothing really riding on it for us and this much hyped up final day would have looked a little silly had Arsenal not done their job and gone out and won the game. It was a scandalous decision from someone considered to be the best ref we have, it defied all logic.

I think the discussion about keeping or scrapping VAR to be completely moot. The key problem is six clubs get almost all of the decisions, and on the incredibly rare occasion they don’t get something in their favour their media agents create an almighty stink that sucks all of the oxygen away from the other 14 clubs who have to put up with this nonsense every week - like Arsenal did when they lost to Newcastle earlier this season.

Until the league is dramatically rebalanced, this will continue whether VAR is in place or not. I’m inclined to want VAR to continue as at least it places the league’s obvious agendas under a greater microscope, like watching that dope Oliver watch his own howler six times in front of a screen before deciding to double done on his own ineptitude.
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That key problem isn't actually true when For / Against VAR calls are tallied up. Unless the six clubs you're talking about are Villa, Chelsea, Everton and 3 from Brighton, Burnley, Fulham or Spurs.

The biggest issue with VAR for me is the stop /start nature and the way it kills the moment. Although there's an argument that sometimes a new 'moment' is created for the opposition fans in the event of a reversal.
 
ClausThomsen said:
That key problem isn't actually true when For / Against VAR calls are tallied up. Unless the six clubs you're talking about are Villa, Chelsea, Everton and 3 from Brighton, Burnley, Fulham or Spurs.

The biggest issue with VAR for me is the stop /start nature and the way it kills the moment. Although there's an argument that sometimes a new 'moment' is created for the opposition fans in the event of a reversal.
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I don’t ever like looking at those stats about which clubs have been ‘wronged’ the most by VAR, they’re nearly always contrived nonsense put out there by organisations like Sky who know exactly where their bread is buttered.

I mean Chelsea are in your list, haven’t they had double digit penalties this season? I don’t even need to go back over all of those to know that two thirds of them are probably utterly nonsense ‘borderline’ decisions that they get but a team like Everton would not - those kind of calls won’t show up in any stat to say they are benefitting from VAR and that a club like us are suffering from it.

I take your point regarding the stop start nature that it creates but that was always going to happen, and it’s a result of players, managers and fans being simply unable to accept that poor refereeing decisions were an unavoidable part of the game.

I’ve always felt that VAR, offsides aside, should have always been a tool that the club captain could call if they wanted something like a penalty or a red card checked. 1 appeal per match, much less waiting around on every little decision and adds an element of fairness for both teams. The PGMOL should never have allowed their current batch of refs to operate the tech either, they should have brought in specially trained individuals for that.
 
toffee-L said:
I’m convinced he gave that yesterday because there was nothing really riding on it for us and this much hyped up final day would have looked a little silly had Arsenal not done their job and gone out and won the game. It was a scandalous decision from someone considered to be the best ref we have, it defied all logic.

I think the discussion about keeping or scrapping VAR to be completely moot. The key problem is six clubs get almost all of the decisions, and on the incredibly rare occasion they don’t get something in their favour their media agents create an almighty stink that sucks all of the oxygen away from the other 14 clubs who have to put up with this nonsense every week - like Arsenal did when they lost to Newcastle earlier this season.

Until the league is dramatically rebalanced, this will continue whether VAR is in place or not. I’m inclined to want VAR to continue as at least it places the league’s obvious agendas under a greater microscope, like watching that dope Oliver watch his own howler six times in front of a screen before deciding to double done on his own ineptitude.
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As long as the special six are....just that, and until referees are held accountable then I think you are right, it wont make a difference. But with VAR, Oliver has to watch it over and over again, be rightly called out for it, and his bias shown to the world for its rightful criticism.

If you take away VAR, what Oliver wants, he has to answer to nobody and he can hide behind "I didnt see it". VAR is accountability. It is a spotlight showcasing the bias and corruption of certain people. Dont take the spotlight away just because someone continues in their way. Keep shining it until it becomes so glaringly obvious to everyone who the perpetrators are. We shouldnt stop saying the PL is corrupt just because the PL refuses to acknowledge it, and continues to act however they want, should we? Then neither should we remove VAR in my opinion.
 

toffee-L said:
I don’t ever like looking at those stats about which clubs have been ‘wronged’ the most by VAR, they’re nearly always contrived nonsense put out there by organisations like Sky who know exactly where their bread is buttered.

I mean Chelsea are in your list, haven’t they had double digit penalties this season? I don’t even need to go back over all of those to know that two thirds of them are probably utterly nonsense ‘borderline’ decisions that they get but a team like Everton would not - those kind of calls won’t show up in any stat to say they are benefitting from VAR and that a club like us are suffering from it.

I take your point regarding the stop start nature that it creates but that was always going to happen, and it’s a result of players, managers and fans being simply unable to accept that poor refereeing decisions were an unavoidable part of the game.

I’ve always felt that VAR, offsides aside, should have always been a tool that the club captain could call if they wanted something like a penalty or a red card checked. 1 appeal per match, much less waiting around on every little decision and adds an element of fairness for both teams. The PGMOL should never have allowed their current batch of refs to operate the tech either, they should have brought in specially trained individuals for that.
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Attacking teams who have more of the ball in their opponents box are going to get more penalties. Teams that are more often on the back foot and don't have as much possession in the box aren't in a position to win penalties as often. That's always been the way since before VAR.

The stats aren't 'contrived'. They are a simple record of which teams have had a VAR reversal of an onfield decision go in their favour. And I don't think we can argue too strongly that a team like Everton don't get borderline decisions. We have done, it's a matter of record. If there was some Machiavellian scheme then one of the penalty calls against Forest could have been given without causing an unbearable degree of scrutiny or outrage outside of Evertonians. Tomorrows chip paper and all that.

I kind of agree on the number of calls system but it doesn't fix other issues of people seeing or exaggerating bias and completely ignoring or minimising the importance of anything that doesn't support their position. The whole 'VAR is for the Scab 6' thing doesn't actually stand up to scrutiny throughout the course of a season. People just see what they want to, maybe subconsciously, which is the nature of supporting a team or having an agenda.

Scrap it, keep it, alter it. It'll make no difference to how people perceive the game.
 
ClausThomsen said:
Attacking teams who have more of the ball in their opponents box are going to get more penalties. Teams that are more often on the back foot and don't have as much possession in the box aren't in a position to win penalties as often. That's always been the way since before VAR.

The stats aren't 'contrived'. They are a simple record of which teams have had a VAR reversal of an onfield decision go in their favour. And I don't think we can argue too strongly that a team like Everton don't get borderline decisions. We have done, it's a matter of record. If there was some Machiavellian scheme then one of the penalty calls against Forest could have been given without causing an unbearable degree of scrutiny or outrage outside of Evertonians. Tomorrows chip paper and all that.

I kind of agree on the number of calls system but it doesn't fix other issues of people seeing or exaggerating bias and completely ignoring or minimising the importance of anything that doesn't support their position. The whole 'VAR is for the Scab 6' thing doesn't actually stand up to scrutiny throughout the course of a season. People just see what they want to, maybe subconsciously, which is the nature of supporting a team or having an agenda.

Scrap it, keep it, alter it. It'll make no difference to how people perceive the game.
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I disagree with you about bias, but that is neither here nor there to me, my main problem is nothing to do with bias, there has always been bias in football, shifting the decision making from the pitch to a VAR studio was never going to change that. I want VAR gone because it ruins the spectacle of a live match. I don't want to wait up to five minutes to celebrate a goal. This is particularly problematic as a match going spectator but it is also ruining watching top flight football on TV too, all the heat and passion goes out of the game and it becomes slow and boring. Couple that with the fact that borderline calls are still subjectively arbitrated by flawed human beings and that mistakes or unusual interpretations of the laws are made via VAR all the time and all you have is belated frustration. I was all for VAR but I was wrong, it has made the game slower, less enjoyable and, despite the misleading stats released by PGMOL, hasn't improved the decision making by enough to make it all worth it. Get shut, it's ruining the game. We'll vote to keep it, no doubt, because as a club we are, and I don't say this lightly, everybody's bish. I hate that we're the nice club, good for Wolves.
 
How it's used needs to be changed. Scale it right back to absolute howlers and the non-subjective and things the ref couldn't possibly see, and still have the ref make the call (even though that went against us yesterday).
 
Furey1878 said:
How it's used needs to be changed. Scale it right back to absolute howlers and the non-subjective and things the ref couldn't possibly see, and still have the ref make the call (even though that went against us yesterday).
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I'd literally just keep goal line technology and the AI offside decisions and bin the rest. Those two things are instantaneous (or near enough) and, because they are automated, don't have any built in bias.
 

The point of var is to eliminate obvious mistakes, such as this. The side effect is that it eliminates the excuse that the ref didn't see it. However, both of those have given way to supporting the narrative.

Var is better than no var...it exposes the corruption/bias, take your pick.
 
windymiller said:
I'd literally just keep goal line technology and the AI offside decisions and bin the rest. Those two things are instantaneous (or near enough) and, because they are automated, don't have any built in bias.
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Yeah I agree mate, I would just also add in like clear dangerous play that the ref couldn't have seen.
 

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