Have you changed your vote yet
That's the big question
I think he should go in the summer mate.
Depending on the Derby/semi-final weak, I think he may go before...
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Match Thread Watford v Everton Sat 9th April 2016 KO 15:00
- Thread starter Groucho
- Start date
- Status
I think he should go in the summer mate.
Depending on the Derby/semi-final weak, I think he may go before...
This is my line of thinking at the moment.
Positives from yesterday (not many, I know):
- Second half, we weren't bad. Looked solid at the back and did create, but as always no finishing touch
- Mirallas came on, played on the right wing, and showed why he's a better right winger than left
Negatives
- Throwing away the lead
- Not been able to defend corners
- Deulofeu
- Lukaku
- Barkley
- Drawing at Watford
- Injury to Jagielka
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
So Rm commented after the game that both teams "put in complete performances" and that "the overall scoreline is a strong one for both teams,”
Unbelievable nonsense.
Unbelievable nonsense.
Not really if thumped high into the crowd further down the pitch no way would a goal had been scored!
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
Now, I was rather 'refreshed' yesterday, but did I dream that we had two corners and were judged offside on both of them?
i think we accepted we're crap at corners except when mori is playing so we just decided to give the ball back
I'm as disappointed as the next at how Mr Martinez's managerialship has turned out.
As an admirer of his hi-tempo pass and movement game, I too was excited at the appointment of this nascent manager who's refreshing outlook on this simple game and it's tactics, held so much promise and expectation.
In some ways, I feel sorry him: he looks and acts like a man on the brink; bewildered, confused and on the back-foot as we saw in his somewhat illogical and shoddy handling of the recent highly publicised 'no chemistry' saga. Perhaps Bainsey should have remained the eminent professional he is and handled it in a manner more befitting, especially when one considers the precarious position we're in and the consequences that an ill considered act such as this could have on the mind-set of a team that seems to share the feeble mindedness of its man-at-the-helm. As a journey man professional, surely he must have known - or did he even consider- the outcome of such a bold move? Frankly, I find it hard to believe otherwise. Only he can know for sure whether his remarks were 'off the cuff', spoken in the heat of the moment or whether they were indeed considered with the intent of deflecting blame for a generally poor season by his standards; or perhaps timed for something more sinister? Perhaps I'm just an armchair conspiracy theorist.
But back to Mr. Martinez.
On the field; in the dressing room; at pre/post match media addresses, he appears to have lost the plot. No apparent game plan - counter attack, then side ways pass, side ways pass, back pass ad infinitum (oh, apart from the pointless hoofing of the ball forward to a striker who's aerial ability is questionable at best, during the Man U game); a bias when censuring players - some are apparently more equal than others as we have seen in the follow ups to recent outpourings by Messrs. Lakaku and Baines; incoherent rhetoric frequently bandied about, such as the drivel that even prompted Chris Sutton to ask what was he talking about.
A seemingly rudderless ship, led by a man in the final throes of madness and in the clutches of a mutinous crew.
But surely, as in the case of Mr. Baines, perhaps Mr. Martinez too should be possessed of the wherewithal to handle himself more accordingly, more befitting of one in the privileged position of managing a club of these proportions? Two wrongs, as we're led to believe, don't make a right. And herein lies the crux of the matter. You see, and for what it's worth, I believe (as in most things in life) blame lies on both sides, which at long last brings me to the point I'd like to make. As far as performances on the pitch go, whether in defence or wherever, the players are equally culpable and simply to place the lions share of the blame at the manager's door, for me is grossly unfair.
Okay, given that we're to believe Mr. Martinez pays no credence to the practice of defending - blameworthy in my humble opinion but that's his ethos and we hired him in full knowledge of this - this does not absolve the players of their share of the blame. "Roberto doesn't practice dead ball situations" or any other lame excuse players may proffer (because that's what they are) just doesn't cut it for me and I suspect many of you feel the same.
Whether we like it or not, our heroes are mercenaries, highly paid specialists employed to a job they've been specially selected for. So if you're employed as a defender, fundamentally that is what you do: when the opposition attacks, you utilise the tools of your trade to stop them scoring as per job description.
Now, it may seem mightily unfair of me to solely lambaste the defence in a team that is wholly worthy of a darned good verbal kicking, but the goal conceded at Watford yesterday serves to illustrate my point.
Regrettably for us, this was no goal of the season contender but more of a goal gifted. Gifted because, we failed to address ( yet again) the Achilles heel of most defences which is that 'back post' spot or point between the CB and and fullback which, as most of you will be aware, has been blindingly evident for a couple of seasons, ironically, even when Distin (whom I much admired) was still here. I've lost count of the number of times that he and Bainsey were given stick over this. Yet here we still are, with Leighton and his co-defenders failing to learn from their mistakes, and yes - their mistakes, not their manager's. The manager may be responsible for choice of team and tactics; the players, are without doubt, responsible for the fundamentals. Fundamentals such as defending, goal keeping or simply losing a marker. Fundamentals, that have nothing to do with 'chemistry', methodology or any other half baked notion that some would have us believe.
So do I sympathise with Mr. Martinez's predicament? As a fellow human being, yes - I don't necessarily get a kick out of watching others' squirm. As a Premiership manager? No. Not really. He is most definitely the engineer of his own downfall for many of the reasons tendered here amongst the litany of threads in these most hallowed of pages, a man apparently out of his depth but paid handsomely for the privilege - or torture as he might see it.
But placing the blame almost entirely at his door simply doesn't wash. Football merely mirrors life in as much as both sides are at fault. Perhaps one or two of our players are equally to blame? Perhaps some, like Mr. Martinez, are also out of their depths?
As an admirer of his hi-tempo pass and movement game, I too was excited at the appointment of this nascent manager who's refreshing outlook on this simple game and it's tactics, held so much promise and expectation.
In some ways, I feel sorry him: he looks and acts like a man on the brink; bewildered, confused and on the back-foot as we saw in his somewhat illogical and shoddy handling of the recent highly publicised 'no chemistry' saga. Perhaps Bainsey should have remained the eminent professional he is and handled it in a manner more befitting, especially when one considers the precarious position we're in and the consequences that an ill considered act such as this could have on the mind-set of a team that seems to share the feeble mindedness of its man-at-the-helm. As a journey man professional, surely he must have known - or did he even consider- the outcome of such a bold move? Frankly, I find it hard to believe otherwise. Only he can know for sure whether his remarks were 'off the cuff', spoken in the heat of the moment or whether they were indeed considered with the intent of deflecting blame for a generally poor season by his standards; or perhaps timed for something more sinister? Perhaps I'm just an armchair conspiracy theorist.
But back to Mr. Martinez.
On the field; in the dressing room; at pre/post match media addresses, he appears to have lost the plot. No apparent game plan - counter attack, then side ways pass, side ways pass, back pass ad infinitum (oh, apart from the pointless hoofing of the ball forward to a striker who's aerial ability is questionable at best, during the Man U game); a bias when censuring players - some are apparently more equal than others as we have seen in the follow ups to recent outpourings by Messrs. Lakaku and Baines; incoherent rhetoric frequently bandied about, such as the drivel that even prompted Chris Sutton to ask what was he talking about.
A seemingly rudderless ship, led by a man in the final throes of madness and in the clutches of a mutinous crew.
But surely, as in the case of Mr. Baines, perhaps Mr. Martinez too should be possessed of the wherewithal to handle himself more accordingly, more befitting of one in the privileged position of managing a club of these proportions? Two wrongs, as we're led to believe, don't make a right. And herein lies the crux of the matter. You see, and for what it's worth, I believe (as in most things in life) blame lies on both sides, which at long last brings me to the point I'd like to make. As far as performances on the pitch go, whether in defence or wherever, the players are equally culpable and simply to place the lions share of the blame at the manager's door, for me is grossly unfair.
Okay, given that we're to believe Mr. Martinez pays no credence to the practice of defending - blameworthy in my humble opinion but that's his ethos and we hired him in full knowledge of this - this does not absolve the players of their share of the blame. "Roberto doesn't practice dead ball situations" or any other lame excuse players may proffer (because that's what they are) just doesn't cut it for me and I suspect many of you feel the same.
Whether we like it or not, our heroes are mercenaries, highly paid specialists employed to a job they've been specially selected for. So if you're employed as a defender, fundamentally that is what you do: when the opposition attacks, you utilise the tools of your trade to stop them scoring as per job description.
Now, it may seem mightily unfair of me to solely lambaste the defence in a team that is wholly worthy of a darned good verbal kicking, but the goal conceded at Watford yesterday serves to illustrate my point.
Regrettably for us, this was no goal of the season contender but more of a goal gifted. Gifted because, we failed to address ( yet again) the Achilles heel of most defences which is that 'back post' spot or point between the CB and and fullback which, as most of you will be aware, has been blindingly evident for a couple of seasons, ironically, even when Distin (whom I much admired) was still here. I've lost count of the number of times that he and Bainsey were given stick over this. Yet here we still are, with Leighton and his co-defenders failing to learn from their mistakes, and yes - their mistakes, not their manager's. The manager may be responsible for choice of team and tactics; the players, are without doubt, responsible for the fundamentals. Fundamentals such as defending, goal keeping or simply losing a marker. Fundamentals, that have nothing to do with 'chemistry', methodology or any other half baked notion that some would have us believe.
So do I sympathise with Mr. Martinez's predicament? As a fellow human being, yes - I don't necessarily get a kick out of watching others' squirm. As a Premiership manager? No. Not really. He is most definitely the engineer of his own downfall for many of the reasons tendered here amongst the litany of threads in these most hallowed of pages, a man apparently out of his depth but paid handsomely for the privilege - or torture as he might see it.
But placing the blame almost entirely at his door simply doesn't wash. Football merely mirrors life in as much as both sides are at fault. Perhaps one or two of our players are equally to blame? Perhaps some, like Mr. Martinez, are also out of their depths?
Stanley Parker
Player Valuation: £15m
Jagielka comes off with a hamstring injury - and is likely to miss at least the next game.
Carroll comes in at West Ham and scores a hat-trick.
That's worrying for Manchester United - and Everton - in the Cup.
Carroll comes in at West Ham and scores a hat-trick.
That's worrying for Manchester United - and Everton - in the Cup.
yeah but in a cup game form goes out the window mate, even you should know that
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