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Who’s the GOAT?
- Thread starter Deco
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wandyr79
Player Valuation: £25m
GOAT? None of them or all of them. Whichever way you want to see the fact that they are incomparable to people who did not see them all play, like me.
My favourite, non Everton, player is Ronaldo (Original), simply unplayable at times, pace, power, guile, technique, skill and finishing. He also did a Pele skill of rounding the keeper the opposite side of the ball and actually scoring, getting a standing ovation from a whole away ground when playing at Old Trafford., etc. The man was a beast of a player.
Zidane is not far away, mesmorizing on the ball.
My favourite, non Everton, player is Ronaldo (Original), simply unplayable at times, pace, power, guile, technique, skill and finishing. He also did a Pele skill of rounding the keeper the opposite side of the ball and actually scoring, getting a standing ovation from a whole away ground when playing at Old Trafford., etc. The man was a beast of a player.
Zidane is not far away, mesmorizing on the ball.
Toffeeslam
Player Valuation: £35m
PlayStation generation will say Messi or CR7 but the truth is if there is one it would be Maradona.
Won a World Cup almost single handed year with weaker Argie team then Messi ever played in
Won a World Cup almost single handed year with weaker Argie team then Messi ever played in
I don't really know, I put the X in Messi's box because he's incredible, but if I were born at a time when Maradona was in his prime - it would probably be him.
EFC78
Player Valuation: £25m
It's hard for me to properly judge given that I was born in the late 80's so never saw the likes of Pele and Maradona. Therefore relying on the footage i've seen and reading about what they've all achieved I would go with Pele, followed by Maradona, Messi, Zidane and then Cristiano Ronaldo. Zidane may be too high but France 98 was my favourite ever tournament so have a bit of a biased view of him and then he scored that goal in the CL final.
I feel like a lot of people are quick to write off Messi with the lack of World Cup win, and yet many dismiss Pele's achievements even at the World Cup. I assume it's because Maradona achieved things with an Argentina side vastly inferior overall to the Brazil sides Pele played in, and also went to Napoli and made such an impact. That was an incredible achievement by Maradona and is why I personally have him ahead of Messi.
Pele's impact as a 17 year old in the World Cup is why i've put him number 1. To score in the Quarters, then get a hat-trick in the Semi's and 2 in the final is something that I don't think will ever be matched on the world stage, especially at that age. And then he went on to achieve all he did with his goal scoring and win 2 more World Cups (appreciate he played very little in the 1962 win).
I think what sets Messi apart from Maradona (going off watching Messi regularly in the big games, and only being able to view footage of Maradona on youtube etc) is Messi's vision. They seem very similar with dribbling skill, but i've never seen anyone with the passing ability of Messi. I saw someone else mention him, but I think James Rodriguez' vision for us is getting towards that level, but obviously he doesn't have the rest of Messi's attributes. I could be wrong on Maradona's lack of vision compared with Messi but I haven't seen the evidence he's at that level from the clips I have seen. That is why I also much prefer Messi to Cristiano Ronaldo. He's just a far better all round player for me.
I feel like a lot of people are quick to write off Messi with the lack of World Cup win, and yet many dismiss Pele's achievements even at the World Cup. I assume it's because Maradona achieved things with an Argentina side vastly inferior overall to the Brazil sides Pele played in, and also went to Napoli and made such an impact. That was an incredible achievement by Maradona and is why I personally have him ahead of Messi.
Pele's impact as a 17 year old in the World Cup is why i've put him number 1. To score in the Quarters, then get a hat-trick in the Semi's and 2 in the final is something that I don't think will ever be matched on the world stage, especially at that age. And then he went on to achieve all he did with his goal scoring and win 2 more World Cups (appreciate he played very little in the 1962 win).
I think what sets Messi apart from Maradona (going off watching Messi regularly in the big games, and only being able to view footage of Maradona on youtube etc) is Messi's vision. They seem very similar with dribbling skill, but i've never seen anyone with the passing ability of Messi. I saw someone else mention him, but I think James Rodriguez' vision for us is getting towards that level, but obviously he doesn't have the rest of Messi's attributes. I could be wrong on Maradona's lack of vision compared with Messi but I haven't seen the evidence he's at that level from the clips I have seen. That is why I also much prefer Messi to Cristiano Ronaldo. He's just a far better all round player for me.
EFC78
Player Valuation: £25m
He won the player of the tournament at the World Cup in 2014. He had a big impact in the group stages, scoring in all 3 games, including an excellent goal in the last minute to beat Iran (can only beat who you are up against and all that). He had a more disappointing knockout stage but he's held to such high standards that some people ended up disappointed in him by the end of it.
I can't ever remember Cristiano Ronaldo doing a massive amount in any World Cup, certainly hasn't ever been voted player of the tournament. People will mention the Euros win in 2016, where he did win the player of the tournament in that, however, Portugal must be contenders for the worst winners of any international tournament with that win, drawing all their group games (Ronaldo only scored 1 in that), and relying on extra time or penalties to get through the next 2 rounds (he didn't score in either game). Scored in the semi and went off in the final after 25 mins. Was hardly a massive influence throughout that tournament, when you consider how much of an impact he has in the CL.
No doubting he's a phenomenal player though.
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
The idea that Ronaldo wins on international career has always been a bit weird to me. You've basically made the case already, it doesn't really make sense to give Cristiano a ton of extra credit for Euro 2016 while saying Messi has never shown up when he was better in 2014 but was let down by his teammates instead of lifted up. But I think it is also worth noting that Ronaldo has padded his goal total with Portugal substantially down the years. I mean he had 11 goals in Euro 2020 qualifying and 9 were against Lithuania and Luxembourg. I don't really think either player sets themselves apart in the international arena.
On a more serious note what are we using to determine GOAT? Talent, trophies?
Messi is and always has been a better footballer than Ronaldo.
Messi is and always has been a better footballer than Ronaldo.
That also conveniently forgets that Messi's Argentina have reached 3 finals of the Copa America and a World Cup final, so while they've never actually won a tournament, they've probably done a lot more than Portugal have in the same time frame.
PSB1
Player Valuation: £8m
Didn't know he was an exotic dancer Brave use of his free time..
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
Using international tournaments as a barometer in modern football is a bit of a bad idea imo as you're picking random 7 game samples out of careers of guys who play 75 times a year often at a higher level. I get it for the older guys as the World Cup brought more talent together than your average league match, but that doesn't happen anymore so it isn't necessary in the same way.
I get why it happens though as no tournament means more than the World Cup. It just isn't great for evaluating individuals.
Aye, you wouldn't get people really saying that Ronaldo and Messi are crap because Barca and Juve are very unlikely to win the CL at the moment. People seem to have more realistic expectations of club teams.
DownOnTheUpside
Player Valuation: £30m
Ronaldinho?
Drico
Player Valuation: £60m
I've been watching football for 41 years now. I am loath to say who is the greatest player of all time simply because the rules of the game are so different now that it is not a fair comparison. In the 1980s, brutes like Andoni "The Butcher of Bilbao" Goicoechea, Claudio "The Gentle Touch" Gentile, and Antonio "Macho" Camacho were allowed to brutalise and assault the world's great players. The tackle from behind was legal. The offside trap was such that players could be squeezed into very constricted spaces and then given a proper kicking with man-marking, code for grievous bodily harm, de rigueur.
In that sense, I prefer to rank the creative greats per decade, rather than against each other. So, for me, 5 for each decade, and very roughly:
1980s: Maradona, Rummenigge, Platini, Zico, Gullit
1990s: Ronaldo, Van Basten, Baggio, Matthäus, Stoichkov
2000s: Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho, Nedved, Rivaldo
2010s: Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi, Tom Davies
Best defenders in that time: Passarella, Breitner, Rijkaard, Baresi, Brehme, Maldini, Cannavaro, Sammer, Lahm, and too many more to mention.
Best goalkeepers: Schumacher, Dasaev, Southall, Pfaff, Schmeichel, Ravelli, Kahn, Casillas, Buffon, Neuer
In that sense, I prefer to rank the creative greats per decade, rather than against each other. So, for me, 5 for each decade, and very roughly:
1980s: Maradona, Rummenigge, Platini, Zico, Gullit
1990s: Ronaldo, Van Basten, Baggio, Matthäus, Stoichkov
2000s: Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho, Nedved, Rivaldo
2010s: Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi, Tom Davies
Best defenders in that time: Passarella, Breitner, Rijkaard, Baresi, Brehme, Maldini, Cannavaro, Sammer, Lahm, and too many more to mention.
Best goalkeepers: Schumacher, Dasaev, Southall, Pfaff, Schmeichel, Ravelli, Kahn, Casillas, Buffon, Neuer
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