Why GOT is the Peoples Site for the Peoples Club

[SuitsBlue]

guilty by association is my PERSONAL view.

i didnt like being abused and victimised on TW and its assocaited forum.

if im out of order tell me.

 

[SFBlue]

Monty, what transpired between your and Garry was ostensibly a personal issue between the two of you. You may have seen it as ToffeeWeb attacking you through our "representative" but what Garry said and did was not done in our name. We didn't condone it even if it is your perception that we did by not getting rid of him at the time.

As I said before, it wasn't as black and white as just cutting him off because he hosted the forum and therefore owned it. It would have left us without a forum and no time in which to start a new one. (As it turns out, we've been without a forum for weeks now after it abruptly disappeared without a word of explanation). In actual fact, Garry's conduct towards you was the turning point that made me realise that we probably couldn't retain him as the owner of our Forums for much longer.

But, again, we haven't really been in a position to do anything about it. A dodgy mySQL server was responsible for the forum continually crashing when we first tried to host it with our hosting provider, and when a similar issue brought the main site to its knees earlier this year, it looked as though we'd need to either make the leap to new hosts (an absolute last resort) or at least upgrade to a virtual server where we'd be isolated from other sites. We held off on making that expensive decision when the site began running normally and the stadium issue kicked into high gear.

Which brings us to where we are now, forced into having to do something about the forum and thankful to Danny and Dylan for offering to become our official forum. I know that our inaction on this whole issue has created a certain perception but the reality is that there are times when I wonder how TW keeps going given the amount of work it takes. There are only so many issues you can deal with at one time, only so many time-consuming projects you can handle at one time and, yes, it was easier to turn a partially blind eye to what was going on with Garry in order to merely keep the Forum running. But, again, we did not condone his conduct towards you no matter how much it seems like we did and he was not representing ToffeeWeb by registering for and posting on this board.

 

[TX Bill]

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[monty]

Monty, what transpired between your and Garry was ostensibly a personal issue between the two of you. You may have seen it as ToffeeWeb attacking you through our "representative" but what Garry said and did was not done in our name. We didn't condone it even if it is your perception that we did by not getting rid of him at the time.

As I said before, it wasn't as black and white as just cutting him off because he hosted the forum and therefore owned it. It would have left us without a forum and no time in which to start a new one. (As it turns out, we've been without a forum for weeks now after it abruptly disappeared without a word of explanation). In actual fact, Garry's conduct towards you was the turning point that made me realise that we probably couldn't retain him as the owner of our Forums for much longer.

Lyndon, silence at that time condemn you and TW in my eyes. That attck was not between me and Garry, it was Garry against my daughter. She was merely clearing mail for me as I was seriously ill at the time and your representative told her he wished me dead. he was your representative, there is no other way of descxribing him.

The decent think to have done was for you, or one of the upper crust in TW to have disassociated yourselves from that tirade at that time by means of an apology, but no silence, and it is that silence that brings me to my logical conclusion.

But, again, we haven't really been in a position to do anything about it. A dodgy mySQL server was responsible for the forum continually crashing when we first tried to host it with our hosting provider, and when a similar issue brought the main site to its knees earlier this year, it looked as though we'd need to either make the leap to new hosts (an absolute last resort) or at least upgrade to a virtual server where we'd be isolated from other sites. We held off on making that expensive decision when the site began running normally and the stadium issue kicked into high gear.

The work done by Danny and Dylan to date imo means that they can go on from here by themselves although, and this may surprise you, I have continued to advocate TW connections. As Suits says, the editorial stance being taken at TW is so negative, so anti EFC, that my own mind is changing rapidly on that one as it flies in the face of the positive nature of GOT posters. You say it makes you wonder how TW keeps going, that thought went through my mind as well!

What assurances, if any, can you give in that regard. I would also like to know if you have any regrets over the enforced schism

Which brings us to where we are now, forced into having to do something about the forum and thankful to Danny and Dylan for offering to become our official forum. I know that our inaction on this whole issue has created a certain perception but the reality is that there are times when I wonder how TW keeps going given the amount of work it takes. There are only so many issues you can deal with at one time, only so many time-consuming projects you can handle at one time and, yes, it was easier to turn a partially blind eye to what was going on with Garry in order to merely keep the Forum running. But, again, we did not condone his conduct towards you no matter how much it seems like we did and he was not representing ToffeeWeb by registering for and posting on this board.

Are you sure that you are not making use of Danny and Dylans server as a necessity rather than an excuse? From what you say yours don't work and you haven't got another. I could well say to you about changing TW's name to GOT and then we'll all be happy

Lyndon I will go along with what the lads on here want, that is the democratic way, but please don't paper over your cracks mate, Garry was yours and no one else's, would you forgive if that had happened to your daughter?

 

[monty]

Monty, what transpired between your and Garry was ostensibly a personal issue between the two of you. You may have seen it as ToffeeWeb attacking you through our "representative" but what Garry said and did was not done in our name. We didn't condone it even if it is your perception that we did by not getting rid of him at the time.

As I said before, it wasn't as black and white as just cutting him off because he hosted the forum and therefore owned it. It would have left us without a forum and no time in which to start a new one. (As it turns out, we've been without a forum for weeks now after it abruptly disappeared without a word of explanation). In actual fact, Garry's conduct towards you was the turning point that made me realise that we probably couldn't retain him as the owner of our Forums for much longer.

Lyndon, silence at that time condemn you and TW in my eyes. That attack was not between me and Garry, it was Garry against my daughter. She was merely clearing mail for me as I was seriously ill at the time and your representative told her he wished me dead. he was your representative, there is no other way of describing him mate, he was TW forum hence he was TW.

The decent think to have done was for you, or one of the upper crust in TW to have disassociated yourselves entirely from that tirade at that time by means of an apology, but no you turned a partially blind eye, come on turned a fully deaf ear more like, silence, and it is that silence that brings me to my logical conclusion no matter what you say at this late date.

But, again, we haven't really been in a position to do anything about it. A dodgy mySQL server was responsible for the forum continually crashing when we first tried to host it with our hosting provider, and when a similar issue brought the main site to its knees earlier this year, it looked as though we'd need to either make the leap to new hosts (an absolute last resort) or at least upgrade to a virtual server where we'd be isolated from other sites. We held off on making that expensive decision when the site began running normally and the stadium issue kicked into high gear.

The work done by Danny and Dylan to date imo means that they can go on from here by themselves although, and this may surprise you, I have continued to advocate TW connections. As Suits says, the editorial stance being taken at TW is so negative, so anti EFC, that my own mind is changing rapidly on that one as it flies in the face of the positive nature of GOT posters. You say it makes you wonder how TW keeps going, that thought went through my mind as well!

What assurances, if any, can you give in that regard. I would also like to know if you have any regrets over the enforced schism

Which brings us to where we are now, forced into having to do something about the forum and thankful to Danny and Dylan for offering to become our official forum. I know that our inaction on this whole issue has created a certain perception but the reality is that there are times when I wonder how TW keeps going given the amount of work it takes. There are only so many issues you can deal with at one time, only so many time-consuming projects you can handle at one time and, yes, it was easier to turn a partially blind eye to what was going on with Garry in order to merely keep the Forum running. But, again, we did not condone his conduct towards you no matter how much it seems like we did and he was not representing ToffeeWeb by registering for and posting on this board]

Are you sure that you are not making use of Danny and Dylans server as a necessity rather than an excuse? From what you say yours don't work and you haven't got another. I could well say to you about changing TW's name to GOT and then we'll all be happy

Lyndon I will go along with what the lads on here want, that is the democratic way, but please don't paper over your cracks mate, Garry was yours and no one else's, would you forgive if that had happened to your daughter?(y)
.[/QUOTE

 

[TX Bill]

You're up late Monty....

 

[monty]

You're up late Monty....

New medication, can't sleep TX and had this thread to respond to. My breathing machine is warming up and I'm away shortly mate, Good night

 

[Rob]

also, shortly after "the big bang" as I call it, Garry was added as "Staff" of TW at the bottom of the page.

It wasn't what it was before, it was something like IT Manager instead of Forum Admin like before.

Nice posh title for someone who is nothing more than a coward, a bully and a disgrace to the human race.
All of the mods will remember Garry's pep talks in the admin section, where he came on and told us all how [Poor language removed] a job we were doing, and he might replace us and to be more harsh and moderate with a iron fist.

One word for the likes of him, [Poor language removed].

 

[SFBlue]

"Lyndon, silence at that time condemn you and TW in my eyes. That attack was not between me and Garry, it was Garry against my daughter. He was your representative, there is no other way of describing him mate, he was TW forum hence he was TW."

Correct me if I'm wrong, Monty, but Garry's attack was in a private e-mail. It wasn't conducted on our forum, nor was it even conducted on any Everton forum. How we're supposed to take responsibility for the actions of an individual who happened to run our forum is beyond me. Do we take responsibility for anything else he might do through his e-mail account?

Sorry, mate, but I can condemn Garry's attack (as I did at the time in private e-mails to those who forwarded me the text of his email exchanged with your daughter) but I have nothing to apologise for and nor does Michael Kenrick. I would be just as hurt as you were it my daughter -- and, no, I probably wouldn't have forgiven Garry either -- so I understand where you're coming from but I don't agree that we're implicated by association.

"What assurances, if any, can you give in that regard. I would also like to know if you have any regrets over the enforced schism"


Assurances in what regard?

And, of course I was saddened that the forums split but those who broke away did so for their own reasons. I'll quite freely confess that I wasn't party to or aware of any of the alleged "bullying" or abuses by Garry as I hardly ever visited the forum. I got everything second hand.

"Are you sure that you are not making use of Danny and Dylans server as a necessity rather than an excuse? I could well say to you about changing TW's name to GOT and then we'll all be happy"


There's nothing necessary about the Forum, Monty -- TW has thrived for years without a consistent and well-trafficked forum. Danny offered the opportunity to us but we could just as easily upgraded our hosting account to a dedicated database server, albeit at a cost. With the Mailbag and the Comments facility, we have plenty of areas for discussion, but the Forum obviously provides us with another facet to the site. If this little arrangement works, great. If not, c'est la vie.

 

[SFBlue]

"also, shortly after "the big bang" as I call it, Garry was added as "Staff" of TW at the bottom of the page"

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure where that came from. You'd have to ask Michael. I suspect it came from the fact that he hosted our news database for a few weeks and was, obviously, admin of our forum. Apart from the odd Mailbag moderation, that was the extent of Garry's involvement in TW.

 

[Rob]

The fact that it was in an email just goes to show that he doesn't show his true colours when people are looking.

Picking on monty like the snide [Poor language removed] he is, and then you guys say to him "carry on with the forum mate" like a big pat on the back.

As soon as you read what he said, you should have thought, do I really want a cowardly piece of crap like this running my forum?

 

[Dylan]

The only thing I have to say (my feelings of the perceived 'negative' stance aside) is I am glad you guys have got shut of Garry. He really did the Toffeeweb name no good, and Toffeeweb being the first real Blues website I ever visited on a regular basis, it saddened me greatly. I understand that you stuck by him. You were somewhat obliged, and I am fine with that.

I honestly believe that this forum will flourish in cooperation with TW. We, with our overwhelming positive outlook will be the check and balance to the mailbag. I want and encourage differing views, otherwise this place would be boring, but so long as the views are presented in an articulate, reasonable fashion......free-for-all!!!

Just so long as we all remember at the end of the day we all are still toffee's and we all live Everton.

(Because I sure as hell do, just ask my wife. Second thoughts, don't it'll only piss her off.......'Always on that website, never helps out etc...etc...')

 

[Dylan]

The only thing I want to know is, did Garry ever purchase himself an IPB license, or did he run the software illegally from February to demise after I removed the license?

 

[SFBlue]

In reply to Suits' query re: negativity:

Ah, that old chestnut. I'll indulge you, Suits, only because we get this all the time and it bears repeating.

First and foremost, we're passionate Evertonians with a love for the club's traditions and a desire to see the club aspire to both its illustrious past and the motto on crest. ("Aspire" being the operative word; we're realistic enough to know that on the current un-level playing field and given the mis-management of the club since the glory days of 1980s, there are limits on what is possible.)

We all want what's best for the club but have differing yardsticks by which we measure how the club should go about achieving that -- or not achieving it all for the time being, rather being resigned to the fact that merely finishing in the top ten is good enough after years of flirting with relegation or that by virtue of his Blue blood, the chairman has a certain immunity to criticism.

We've always said that we call it how we see it. If the team is doing well, we'll say so; if they're not performing to the standards we (personally) expect, then we'll say so too and often do, as our detractors will tell you.

Now, where the controversy starts is what is expected of us. Whether it's the size of the site or it's focus on historical content and updated news, some of our readers have their own expectations of how we should report the news. In other words, our homepage and in-depth news reportage should be dry and impartial and that our opinion should be confined to the opinion columns.

The reality, however, is that that passion of which I spoke at the beginning often spills over onto the homepage simply because we do feel so deeply about the club and because we are not journalists writing from a a neutral perspective. And then there is a difference in opinion among the TW staff ourselves on this issue. Ask me and I'll tell you that we should keep the homepage as "newsy" and impartial as possible, but Michael and Colm are a bit more apt to throw in some opinion of their own. That's their prerogative.

And that's as much to do with the fact that we're not a full-fledged media operation with staff dedicated to writing opinion columns and there often isn't time to separate the news from the comment. And, when it comes down to it, we aren't obliged to be impartial unless the majority of our readers turned around and demanded it.

Ultimately, one man's negativity is another man's criticism, healthy or otherwise.

 

[monty]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Monty, but Garry's attack was in a private e-mail. It wasn't conducted on our forum, nor was it even conducted on any Everton forum. How we're supposed to take responsibility for the actions of an individual who happened to run our forum is beyond me. Do we take responsibility for anything else he might do through his e-mail account?

Sorry, mate, but I can condemn Garry's attack (as I did at the time in private e-mails to those who forwarded me the text of his email exchanged with your daughter) but I have nothing to apologise for and nor does Michael Kenrick. I would be just as hurt as you were it my daughter -- and, no, I probably wouldn't have forgiven Garry either -- so I understand where you're coming from but I don't agree that we're implicated by association

Correct me if I'm wrong you say, well I'll let others be the judge of that. Those exchanges were conducted by PM in the main in a forum using the title TW. I published them here as they had been sent to my computer and to my family. I find it staggering when you say 'how we're supposed to take responsibility..........' you knew what had happenned, you did absolutely squat and now attempt to exonerate yourself in this fashion, camp guards spring to mind.

You then go on to say 'sorry mate but I can condemn Garry's attack ..............', just tell me one thing, why apologise to those who wrote to you and not the offended party as any decently run site should have done and would have done. That comment alone is baffling in the extreme and insulting at best as far as I am concerned.

You then go on to say that you were unaware of the bullying actions of Garry, sorry mate but you were, you saw mention of them here, (I don't have direct evidence but others claim to have written to you as well)......in GOT parlance FACT. As for your comments about TW editorial policy, please note that you have been told by this forum, visit Kipper Lyndon where TW is a running joke mate.

As far as I am concerned, yes, you do have apologies to make, I had a daughter in tears due to the actions of one of your representatives working from your forum, but after your responses I fail to see how you can now, what is the world like from your ivory tower mate, it stinks as far as TW is concerned from down here.:angry: