Why GOT is the Peoples Site for the Peoples Club

[Bruce Wayne]

Ah yes, but remember on the last forum Ghost won the 'most negative member' award. In the happy land that is GOT he has been a veritable ray of sunshine. Slippery slope folks, slippery slope

 

[Dylan]

That was member voted. IIRC Garry was supposed to do it, but obviously coundn't be arsed, so Danny revived it and chalk up one more reason Garry had a little hissy fit.

 

[Brownie]

Having read this thread it explains a lot about all the tension between this place and TW. I didn't really know any of this since I've only been around (in an Everton website kinda way) for a couple of years. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few relatively new people, like me, who are basically oblivious to all of this stuff.

What I'm not oblivious to is the negative nature of TW. Personally I don't have a problem with it; in fact I find myself agreeing with the admins quite often. However, high expectations are only one side of being a fan and sometimes TW doesn't let you enjoy the other side. This is why I'm quite looking forward to this move, since I rarely read this forum before, but whenever I did it was always fun. It'll be nice to allow myself to get unashamedly excited once in a while!

That's it really. I just wanted to assure those of you that have been around for ages that there is some new blood on TW, that we are mostly normal and have reasonably balanced opinions. So, hello!

 

[SuitsBlue]

I must admit I was just firing up the Reply box to plead that we not become the TW "official forum". Since events have moved so fast, I'll just have to see how things go.

Lyndon, credit to you for coming on here and explaining your point of view. As others have said, I would like to leave the issues of the split behind, but instead to reply to your comments about the "negativity" issue.

It's not just a question of wanting one point of view. We have enough contrary opinions over here - whether it comes to EFC, politics, society or religion - and have had some pretty intense threads as a result over the short time that this forum has been in operation.

However, why I search Google News with TW excluded is down to
a) the way that almost every teaser on the front page is manipulated to produce a negative impression of the club and administration or a positive impression of certain favourite topics (KEIOC & David France collection are examples)
b ) Michael Kenrick's abuse of his position as admin/mod to insert his own points of view as visible "answers" on the Mailbag. I've only ever known one man who is capable of turning me off a complete community and he is it.
c) The general tone of Mailbags and Articles chosen for publication, which is almost unremittingly not just negative, but extremely negative. Maybe you get relatively few positive articles or posts, but that is because of the atmosphere fostered there. In the recent ground poll, if you had read TW you would have thought that it would come out at 90% against - fair enough, that's who you represent, but GOT is a more open house and I hope TW participants respect that and leave their naked aggression and hate back there.

thats pretty good, im going to post shortly in a similar fashion, its good to see that the aura on toffeeweb has been noticed and remarked on.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Having read this thread it explains a lot about all the tension between this place and TW. I didn't really know any of this since I've only been around (in an Everton website kinda way) for a couple of years. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few relatively new people, like me, who are basically oblivious to all of this stuff.

What I'm not oblivious to is the negative nature of TW. Personally I don't have a problem with it; in fact I find myself agreeing with the admins quite often. However, high expectations are only one side of being a fan and sometimes TW doesn't let you enjoy the other side. This is why I'm quite looking forward to this move, since I rarely read this forum before, but whenever I did it was always fun. It'll be nice to allow myself to get unashamedly excited once in a while!

That's it really. I just wanted to assure those of you that have been around for ages that there is some new blood on TW, that we are mostly normal and have reasonably balanced opinions. So, hello!

Hi Brownie.

 

[SuitsBlue]

Re: monty, and the garry emails.

monty and his family have every right to feel hurt and disgusted by the attitude and malicious nature of the former forum owner.

no apology from him can take back the harm he chose to do.

the former TW forum was in serious decline, numerous individuals had voiced concern over that admin and his behaviour, what I and I suspect many others were hoping for was some sort of responsibility to be taken, what happened was it felt as though the concerns had been glossed over and certain voices had been ignored.

before I take this any further I would like to know if garry (the all seeing eye) was taken to task over his (mis)behaviour by ...

*lyndon
*michael
*colm

any of you or all of you? what did garry site as being the reasoning for the old forum closure? did the tw home site see a dip (slight or otherwise) in the amount of hits?

the problem I see is that there was no closure at the time for the people involved and this has meant the bad feeling at the time has sat directionless.

monty, if I have missed anything I apologise, sauron (the all seeing eye remember) was and will remain subservient scum, there will be no redemption for him in my eyes.

 

[gibbergibb]

Agreed

Having read this thread it explains a lot about all the tension between this place and TW. I didn't really know any of this since I've only been around (in an Everton website kinda way) for a couple of years. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few relatively new people, like me, who are basically oblivious to all of this stuff.

What I'm not oblivious to is the negative nature of TW. Personally I don't have a problem with it; in fact I find myself agreeing with the admins quite often. However, high expectations are only one side of being a fan and sometimes TW doesn't let you enjoy the other side. This is why I'm quite looking forward to this move, since I rarely read this forum before, but whenever I did it was always fun. It'll be nice to allow myself to get unashamedly excited once in a while!

That's it really. I just wanted to assure those of you that have been around for ages that there is some new blood on TW, that we are mostly normal and have reasonably balanced opinions. So, hello!

Totally agree Brownie.
There are a lot of browsers on TW (myself included) who sometimes dont feel like joining in with the debate, as the negative attitude makes you think you will be shot down in flames. Especially if you have an opinion that does not match that of the moderators/regulars.

Thats why after reading through this forum I decided to Join up and hopefully have a bit of a laugh and interaction with other Everton Fans who actually think that things are looking pretty good for the future!

A quick thanks to all those at GOT who have taken on the TW forum and keep it up lads.

Cheers

James

 

[zero]

Totally agree Brownie.
There are a lot of browsers on TW (myself included) who sometimes dont feel like joining in with the debate, as the negative attitude makes you think you will be shot down in flames. Especially if you have an opinion that does not match that of the moderators/regulars.

Thats why after reading through this forum I decided to Join up and hopefully have a bit of a laugh and interaction with other Everton Fans who actually think that things are looking pretty good for the future!

A quick thanks to all those at GOT who have taken on the TW forum and keep it up lads.

Cheers

James

Welcome Brownie and James. hope to read alot more posts from both of you

 

[gibbergibb]

Welcome Brownie and James. hope to read alot more posts from both of you

Seems nice and friendly around here, so you can count on it Zero

Do any of you guys meet up at the games? Coming all the way up to Goodison for the Mettalist game!

 

[SuitsBlue]

In reply to Suits' query re: negativity:

Ah, that old chestnut. I'll indulge you, Suits, only because we get this all the time and it bears repeating.

First and foremost, we're passionate Evertonians with a love for the club's traditions and a desire to see the club aspire to both its illustrious past and the motto on crest. ("Aspire" being the operative word; we're realistic enough to know that on the current un-level playing field and given the mis-management of the club since the glory days of 1980s, there are limits on what is possible.)

We all want what's best for the club but have differing yardsticks by which we measure how the club should go about achieving that -- or not achieving it all for the time being, rather being resigned to the fact that merely finishing in the top ten is good enough after years of flirting with relegation or that by virtue of his Blue blood, the chairman has a certain immunity to criticism.

We've always said that we call it how we see it. If the team is doing well, we'll say so; if they're not performing to the standards we (personally) expect, then we'll say so too and often do, as our detractors will tell you.

Now, where the controversy starts is what is expected of us. Whether it's the size of the site or it's focus on historical content and updated news, some of our readers have their own expectations of how we should report the news. In other words, our homepage and in-depth news reportage should be dry and impartial and that our opinion should be confined to the opinion columns.

The reality, however, is that that passion of which I spoke at the beginning often spills over onto the homepage simply because we do feel so deeply about the club and because we are not journalists writing from a a neutral perspective. And then there is a difference in opinion among the TW staff ourselves on this issue. Ask me and I'll tell you that we should keep the homepage as "newsy" and impartial as possible, but Michael and Colm are a bit more apt to throw in some opinion of their own. That's their prerogative.

And that's as much to do with the fact that we're not a full-fledged media operation with staff dedicated to writing opinion columns and there often isn't time to separate the news from the comment. And, when it comes down to it, we aren't obliged to be impartial unless the majority of our readers turned around and demanded it.

Ultimately, one man's negativity is another man's criticism, healthy or otherwise.

'passionate' that old chestnut.

we are all evertonians (i hope) and we all love the club and its traditions (again i hope)

im glad you mentioned 'limits' to what is 'possible' for on the TW site individuals making such comments were/are all to often criticised for accepting second best, falling for the spin and lies from the club, selling our future short.

Mr Kenrick in particular is guilty of such put downs and editorial posturing.

I have yet to meet or speak to anyone that says the chairman is immune from criticism. Some individuals might not 'get on board' with the bandwagon doing their upmost to throw as much mud at Mr Kenwright but that doesnt necessarily mean they totally disagree.

"we call it how we see it" that old chestnut.

It is my opinion that presiding over a major everton website that a certain amount of impartiality in necessary so as not to taint the articles and opinions that you publish. By all means have a voice, let your feelings be known, but try to keep it out of article/thread titles with the associated witty comments.

I have confronted those in a lofty position before with the phrase ''lead by example'' - such is the occasional spin and slant on subjects involving everton on the TW site that it is nothing more than tinder and the usual suspects turn up and get the flames going. By doing such you purposefully alienate certain elements of support whilst simultaneously harbour and prompt the elements of support most 'on side' with yourselves.

this last point above is the 'majority demand' as people will and do vote with their feet. Individuals here including myself feel alienated by the TW attitude/aura, and there are individuals here at evertoniansof606 that feel similarly.

Im not out for blood, and it is difficult to criticise when you run such a large website as fans for fans but I cant overlook the incessant negativity and the condemnation that rains down on those brave enough to bring it up on there.

 

[micknick]

Welcome gibbergibb and brownie- hopefully you'll stick around and enjoy the views.

 

[Gazdalf]

Welcome gibbergibb and brownie- hopefully you'll stick around and enjoy the views.

I second that sentiment whole heartedly. Welcome to the site that is not afraid to support the club, unlike others who seem to pray for its failure. Bring your positive attitudes for public display. Negative attitudes will be listened to(then ignored as we brain wash you into a more positive outlook )

Once again Welcome Gibbergib and Brownie. Let the good times commence.

COYB

 

[Latch]

Yeah lads welcome to GOT, this site is growing by the week, good to have you here. COYB

 

[gibbergibb]

Cheers!!

Cheers Fellas, Thanks for the warm welcome.

Im coming up to Goodison for the Mettalist game. Do any of you lot ever meet up??

Last time I travelled up was last season so Im juiced up about it this time (especially a european adventure).

Here' to a comfortable first leg win so we can breathe easy for the return.

Cheers

James

 

[TX Bill]

Firstly- Monty really good piece, it reflects both your knowledge of the club and your passion for this forum.

Secondly- As someone who was involved with Toffeeweb from the inside as it were I have to say that the process of Garrys demise was pretty drawn out. It wasnt as if it happened over night, we had a good forum over there- in fact the number of people meant you couldnt second guess what people were going to say on an issue like you can here. I personally enjoyed moderating and think that myself and all the other mods did a great job.

I also see that this could be a great move for GOT- the one thing that we are missing in my eyes is numbers. We have a well run site that benefits from frequent posters but I can almost guess what people are going to say before they write it. It is like an old boys club (which I do like) but there is only so many times you can ask a question like 'Beans or Spaghetti?' I like debate and I enjoy a range of perspectives from different people.

I do believe that Lyndons hands were tied some what with Garry- and as he says it is not black and white. It was a personal email that Garry sent to Jims daughter and therefore out of the toffeeweb remit. I believe Lyndon when he says that it was the turning point for him over Garry- as like a captain he was only getting one of his players views (garry) but when you showed him Monty I do think it was the straw that broke the camels back.

I think the one shame if there is some sort of partnership is that certain members might be lost forever- leeisfree is one that springs to mind that if we cannot get the TW database he may never find his way back again. there are others im sure but i cant think right now.

Well my vote is lets give it a go- we have nothing to lose as we could always go back to being independent again we only have something to gain!

Why not do an official poll Danny? Dylan?

I knew you were going to say that