2018/19 Yerry Mina

[chrismpw]

I hate it when people bang on about free speech. They miss the point entirely.

Free speech is not being eroded at all. Free speech does not mean that people can say whatever they want, however they want, wherever they want without recourse. There will always be consequences to your actions. Those consequences may be someone telling you that you are wrong. Or they may be that you get thrown in prison for inciting racial hatred.

The song is offensive. It’s just not offensive to you. I’m not offended by it. But that’s because it doesn’t play on a stereotype associated with my circumstance. I’m not the subject. The fact is it’s not even funny. It’s obvious and trite.

It’s the equivalent to people singing ‘sign on sign on’ or banging on about thieving scousers.

The social and peer pressure of the babbling masses, selectively chosen by those unelected employees of the established media who have either a political or personal agenda to follow, and then broadcast in a moralising tone sets what is right or wrong in modern society.

Once the public are thus programmed, everybody in the public eye follows suit, for fear if a social media backlash....

"Marco what do you think of the song?"
"Oh OBVIOUSLY it shouldn't happen" is the trite reply, whether he thinks that or not or isn't even bothered a damn. This us the complient / coerced reply just to save a bunch if hassle or even dismissal if his bosses are similarly sensitive to the views of the unthinking mob.

Ergo - people's freedom to speak is repressed by the mood the media chooses to set. You mentioned another yourself when you talked of being banged away for hate crimes. Once upon a time, such sanctions were dished out for actual, physical harm. Now you receive the same for uttering unpopular thoughts (we have abandoned the sticks and stone wisdom of generations past). We are now only one step away from the thought police.

Finally, if you "hate it when" you are yourself guilty of generating hate and then directing it towards a set of people (which includes me) who do said thing. You too could soon be guilty of committing a crime of hate, should I, or others like me be sensitive enough to give an arse, or have the right connections with the media.

Beware hypocrisy - its a stealthy arse! X

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

That wasn't why they did it. It was mocking people from Kirkby for being poor. Or something.

Yes i realised that by some other post.
But you and I know if it was anyone other club they would have thrown that in the pot .

 

[ToffeeDevil]

Was there honestly any chance of this chant ever taking off, anyway? People have, and will continue, to make chants with their friends about players and whatever they want, regardless of how racist and stupid it is to other people, simply because it's funny within their own circles.

The issue here is that it leaked and the media stirred up the issue to make it seem like a unique case, and honestly, stupidity is everywhere

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Was there honestly any chance of this chant ever taking off, anyway? People have, and will continue, to make chants with their friends about players and whatever they want, regardless of how racist and stupid it is to other people, simply because it's funny within their own circles.

The issue here is that it leaked and the media stirred up the issue to make it seem like a unique case, and honestly, stupidity is everywhere

The Yerry Mina to the tune of "have you seen her" was much better, this one just made me chuckle.

The take me home, County Road, Joao Virginia is by far the best player chant we've had in ages though. I'll be devastated if he doesn't make it now.

 

[Tel001]

Lukaku asked United fans to not sing the chant...

That’s because he wasn’t a Belgian scoring genius mate

 

[mill]

The social and peer pressure of the babbling masses, selectively chosen by those unelected employees of the established media who have either a political or personal agenda to follow, and then broadcast in a moralising tone sets what is right or wrong in modern society.

Once the public are thus programmed, everybody in the public eye follows suit, for fear if a social media backlash....

"Marco what do you think of the song?"
"Oh OBVIOUSLY it shouldn't happen" is the trite reply, whether he thinks that or not or isn't even bothered a damn. This us the complient / coerced reply just to save a bunch if hassle or even dismissal if his bosses are similarly sensitive to the views of the unthinking mob.

Ergo - people's freedom to speak is repressed by the mood the media chooses to set. You mentioned another yourself when you talked of being banged away for hate crimes. Once upon a time, such sanctions were dished out for actual, physical harm. Now you receive the same for uttering unpopular thoughts (we have abandoned the sticks and stone wisdom of generations past). We are now only one step away from the thought police.

Finally, if you "hate it when" you are yourself guilty of generating hate and then directing it towards a set of people (which includes me) who do said thing. You too could soon be guilty of committing a crime of hate, should I, or others like me be sensitive enough to give an arse, or have the right connections with the media.

Beware hypocrisy - its a stealthy arse! X

Well, I’ll address your last point first there is a difference between what I said. ‘I hate it when people bang on about freedom of speech’ is not the same as ‘I hate people who bang on about freedom of speech’. I’m sure you understand that distinction. At no point have a marginalised you as a person or as a collective people. So I think hypocrisy is a little unfair.

I can understand that people my be offended by a song based on a racial stereotype. Especially a racial stereotype with oppressive connotations (as explained earlier in the thread). The fact that people of colour have been oppressed and marginalised over time provides context that can’t be ignored. People were oppressed because of the colour of their skin. For hundreds of years. To continue using the tools of that oppression even in humour just perpetuates that oppression.

When people say political correctness gone mad, what is really happening is that the dynamic is changing for what is socially acceptable or not. And that dynamic should change, especially when it is a tool to empower those who have been oppressed. That uncomfortable for people like me (a white man).

I think people should be punished for inciting racial hatred.

Do you not think that they should?

 

[bring the ghost on]

Once upon a time, such sanctions were dished out for actual, physical harm. Now you receive the same for uttering unpopular thoughts... people's freedom to speak is repressed by the mood the media chooses to set.

The media does not determine what constitutes incitement of hatred, this is enshrined in law and includes very specific protected characteristics such as race, sexuality etc.

Sure, the media plays a part in forming opinions which may lead to the creation of legislation, but let’s not forget that the likes of the Daily Mail are the biggest perpetrators of offence headlines, certainly when it comes to immigrant and refugee scaremongering and poverty shaming.

There is of course a risk of the laws being misused which does infringe in freedom of speech. “Hatred” and it’s incitement is, by its nature, subjective.

However, I would rather live in a society where you get punished for inciting hatred than one which overlooks it. Quite often, the people inciting the hatred are far more dangerous than those committing the violence.

 

[chrismpw]

Well, I’ll address your last point first there is a difference between what I said. ‘I hate it when people bang on about freedom of speech’ is not the same as ‘I hate people who bang on about freedom of speech’. I’m sure you understand that distinction. At no point have a marginalised you as a person or as a collective people. So I think hypocrisy is a little unfair.

I can understand that people my be offended by a song based on a racial stereotype. Especially a racial stereotype with oppressive connotations (as explained earlier in the thread). The fact that people of colour have been oppressed and marginalised over time provides context that can’t be ignored. People were oppressed because of the colour of their skin. For hundreds of years. To continue using the tools of that oppression even in humour just perpetuates that oppression.

When people say political correctness gone mad, what is really happening is that the dynamic is changing for what is socially acceptable or not. And that dynamic should change, especially when it is a tool to empower those who have been oppressed. That uncomfortable for people like me (a white man).

I think people should be punished for inciting racial hatred.

Do you not think that they should?

I think that those who denegrate other people consistently and wholescale should be punished, irrespective of whether it is based in race or gender, or anything else a person has no choice over - because it harms the person.

I am against punishing people when the recipient takes no offence (maybe even likes the comment) but someone else does as the crowd shout 'me too' just to get noticed about how high and magnificent their horse is.

Also, in my eyes, racial hate crime is when you run somebody down for their race, or prejudice against them - not ruddy compliment them!

 

[mill]

I think that those who denegrate other people consistently and wholescale should be punished, irrespective of whether it is based in race or gender, or anything else a person has no choice over - because it harms the person.

I am against punishing people when the recipient takes no offence (maybe even likes the comment) but someone else does as the crowd shout 'me too' just to get noticed about how high and magnificent their horse is.

Also, in my eyes, racial hate crime is when you run somebody down for their race, or prejudice against them - not ruddy compliment them!

Do you think rape humour is offensive?

I do. I’ve never been raped though. Am I allowed to find it offensive?

What about if someone makes a lewd comment about my sister or wife? Can they be offended? I mean it’s a compliment right?

And re the compliment thing. The context of that particular stereotype has already been explained. And was designed to oppress. Context is important.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

This Kick It Out needed a distraction as they are being invetigated by the charity commision over poor working conditions for its staff!?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...n-investigation-claims-bullying-a8693531.html

Abra cadabra a day later they launch their own investigation into Everton... Ian Wright does a better job off his own conviction than Kick it Out.

 

[chrismpw]

Do you think rape humour is offensive?

I do. I’ve never been raped though. Am I allowed to find it offensive?

What about if someone makes a lewd comment about my sister or wife? Can they be offended? I mean it’s a compliment right?

And re the compliment thing. The context of that particular stereotype has already been explained. And was designed to oppress. Context is important.

Oh God, I'm discussing something with someone in the internet who doesn't absorb the words. I'm too busy to rephrase it again, so I will just copy and past my last comment here

"I think that those who denegrate other people consistently and wholescale should be punished, irrespective of whether it is based in race or gender, or anything else a person has no choice over - because it harms the person."

Over to you for the last word.

 

[mill]

Oh God, I'm discussing something with someone in the internet who doesn't absorb the words. I'm too busy to rephrase it again, so I will just copy and past my last comment here

"I think that those who denegrate other people consistently and wholescale should be punished, irrespective of whether it is based in race or gender, or anything else a person has no choice over - because it harms the person."

Over to you for the last word.

I agree with you over that.

My issue was with your second paragraph. Which on the face of I disagreed with entirely. So I asked you those questions to understand what you mean? My questions may be abstract but it allows me to gauge your point of view.

You can attempt to patronise all you like. That’s fine. You may take comfort in that. I’m just trying to understand your point of view. Which is kind of the overriding point I’m trying to make in the first place.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'm willing to reflect and maybe the penis thing is inappropriate. Still like to hear Yerry's true opinion on the matter though.

Do you think rape humour is offensive?

I do. I’ve never been raped though. Am I allowed to find it offensive?

There were jokes or comments incinuating rape about me going to prison in Thailand.

Did I think they were funny? Not particularly.

Was I offended? No. Offence is something you choose to take, not something inherent in the words themselves. You have to take a conscious decision to be offended.

If the song makes someone feel bad then bin it. It was the lemo bit I liked anyway and the fact I love the macarena.

 

[coollino]

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Has to have a massive game tomorrow to show his value.