Accounts out for 2010 - 2011

[Neiler]

Dunno havent seen them myself.

Im sure lots will have gone on "Other Operating Costs".

Anyway, the headlines show what we all know, Turnover is the same, Wages have gone up, Debt is the same, pretty uneventful, as I say, I want next Aprils Accounts and I want them NOW.

Was looking for a bit more then Dunno, havnt seen them and Im sure lots would have gone - but sums up pretty much most all the opinions in this thread including my own as i havnt given them any great attention myself yet. So im not going to say wheather they are good or bad untill i do.

TBH, these are an important set of accounts and very timely, they could potentially tell us an awful lot which is why i want to spend a bit of time giving them a good look.

But anyone else is welcome to have a stab at them, then just trying to be a Kenwrong letterman cluber trying to meet new people.

 

[billycopper]

It's silly numbers isn't it. 58 million on wages. On wages!

Shifting out Arteta, Yakubu, Yobo and Beckford should ease that considerably.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Other operating costs still up at £23M, but were as low as £11M four years ago. Probably some very reasonable explanation for that even if our chairman doesn't know what it is.

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

For years all these numbers have shown is who is living up to their end of the bargain...and it's mostly the supporters. The only thing the board has offered is slash and burn tactics to keep us out of admin. Sickening, really.

 

[EFCNIK]

Shifting out Arteta, Yakubu, Yobo and Beckford should ease that considerably.

Yeah but just in general, for any business ever. 58 mill just on company wages with a vast majority of that taken up between about 20 people.

And we probably have one of the lower wage bills. Football money is silly like. But I suppose it's supply and demand. If a company thinks paying ridiculous wages will pay even more ridiculous dividends then I suppose it's absolutly nessessary.

 

[billycopper]

Yeah but just in general, for any business ever. 58 mill just on company wages with a vast majority of that taken up between about 20 people.

And we probably have one of the lower wage bills. Football money is silly like. But I suppose it's supply and demand. If a company thinks paying ridiculous wages will pay even more ridiculous dividends then I suppose it's absolutly nessessary.

Market forces though, isn't it? If we don't offer players a wage comparative to one that they'd receive at other clubs, they'll just exercise freedom of contract. Perhaps Bill is hoping to phase out Saha, Distin and even Neville to bring the wage bill down even further?

 

[Warzycha's Caterpillar]

The other operating costs included The Yak's £14m Domino's tab.

we're pretty much in the black lads.

 

[BigBlueBalls]

From the OS

Main Points

- Improved group turnover up from £79.1m to £82m
- Total wages up from £54.3m to £58m
- Wages as a percentage of turnover (Inc. Outsourced catering and retail) up from 65 per cent to 67 per cent
- Operating Loss before player trading remaining stable at £0.5m
- Net debt remained stable at £44.9m

Chief Executive Robert Elstone said: “Overall, these are solid numbers which point to a well-managed Club maintaining its position in tough times and in the face of tough competition.


This doesn't include the player sales as it's books ending May 31st 2011 so we won't know whether the money from palyer sales went towards debt.

Thoughts?

I'll start with the facts.
67% of £82,000,000 is £54,940,000 and the difference from £58mill is £3,060,000. Now outsourced catering and retail is costing over £3mill a year? OR have I got that wrong?
Stable Net debt. $44.9million. What does that include guaranteed against future season ticket sales ? (The stuff we pay massive interest on, and get penalised for paying off early???)
Pienaar was sold last January, so where is the player trading? Yobo was on loan, what of that?
How is the club readying itself for the new Sky TV deal that is just around the corner?

 

[ToffeeDan]

Try to find some positives
1) Treading water - financially (yeah, going backwards again but not so much as to be beyond the pale
2) Stability - not overspending but it's affecting our results (performance) having a small(er) squad -leading to reduced SHARE of the prize money (even if the total prize/tv money is set to rise a bit in the next couple of years at least)
3) The relative comforts achieved - such as they are - in the past FY have been from the sale of Bellefield
4) The Amortisation Charge for the players' transfer fees remains relatively constant - I expect this will diminish for (part of the current FY - all if we don't buy anyone in January).


If I make a quick estimate of the financial performance for this current year I'd be inclined to expect - turnover to be similar (some reduction based on lower crowds offset by some increases in prize money). Some wage reduction from sale of 3 important players (presumably on around £8-10M pa wages). There will be a significant profit on the sale of the 3 players concerned:


Amortisation (10-11) £16.6M (I can reasonably see £13-14M from the 10-11 squad - I guess the other £2M odd related to Agents' Fees etc. in those transfers. With the sale of Yakubu this might be reduced to £12M. - so an improvement of say £4M


Transfers - Beckford £1.5M & Arteta (circa £10M) will be against a nil book value so another £10M on the right side of things. Yakubu was sold for current net book value (give or take).


So, right now, assuming no significant change in all other things (major purchase, wage bill, massive reduction in turnover/relegation etc. we might look at a Trading Profit of around £10-12M (probably a lot less after a transfer or two, other increased costs)- or perhaps better this current FY which would put us back on a more even keel - if we could post a profit of around £5M to improve the Balance Sheet somewhat that would be a start!!


So, to summarise - nothing to be greatly delighted about but with costs under control we might emerge with a stronger 11-12 position thanks to some careful management, which in turn could see us turn the corner next season if our borrowing costs / facilities were to improve as a consequence.

 

[SaffaBlue]

Awraight lids, recently landed my first job as a Financial Advisor.

Will get back to this thread in the new year after a bit of experience!

HOWEVER, I will tell you now that somewhere, somehow, the club is lying to us.

EVERY GOD DAMN TIME THERE IS A PRESS RELEASE THERE IS SOME MANIPULATION GOING ON!!!!

''Oh, you lids wanna march eh? Well theres no need! We have a buyer!''

(next week)

''Oh my bad, it fell through but we cant tell you who it was or any details.''

 

[SaffaBlue]

Awraight lids, recently landed my first job as a Financial Advisor.

Will get back to this thread in the new year after a bit of experience!

HOWEVER, I will tell you now that somewhere, somehow, the club is lying to us.

EVERY GOD DAMN TIME THERE IS A PRESS RELEASE THERE IS SOME MANIPULATION GOING ON!!!!

''Oh, you lids wanna march eh? Well theres no need! We have a buyer!''

(next week)

''Oh my bad, it fell through but we cant tell you who it was or any details.''

 

[The Esk]

In financial terms we are a corner shop trying to compete on a high street full of retail giants.

We're not going bust but we won't ever make any money. We don't have a balance sheet to expand our squad and arguably the squad value and therefore quality will have to be reduced further through the sale of our better assets being replaced by youngsters or bargains plucked out of relative obscurity.

Just like our football, our finances are as dull as ditch water, even financially we play 4-5-1 !

 

[davek]

Cant wait for Neiler to emerge with The Truth.

He's the one I look to for forensic analysis. The Financial Review Team have never let us down in the past.

 

[Neiler]

Cant wait for Neiler to emerge with The Truth.

He's the one I look to for forensic analysis. The Financial Review Team have never let us down in the past.

Lol, Matt??????????????????? Hes calling you out here mate!

You going to have a crack at it Dave mate, or just going to handbag it?

 

[davek]

Try to find some positives
1) Treading water - financially (yeah, going backwards again but not so much as to be beyond the pale
2) Stability - not overspending but it's affecting our results (performance) having a small(er) squad -leading to reduced SHARE of the prize money (even if the total prize/tv money is set to rise a bit in the next couple of years at least)
3) The relative comforts achieved - such as they are - in the past FY have been from the sale of Bellefield
4) The Amortisation Charge for the players' transfer fees remains relatively constant - I expect this will diminish for (part of the current FY - all if we don't buy anyone in January).


If I make a quick estimate of the financial performance for this current year I'd be inclined to expect - turnover to be similar (some reduction based on lower crowds offset by some increases in prize money). Some wage reduction from sale of 3 important players (presumably on around £8-10M pa wages). There will be a significant profit on the sale of the 3 players concerned:


Amortisation (10-11) £16.6M (I can reasonably see £13-14M from the 10-11 squad - I guess the other £2M odd related to Agents' Fees etc. in those transfers. With the sale of Yakubu this might be reduced to £12M. - so an improvement of say £4M


Transfers - Beckford £1.5M & Arteta (circa £10M) will be against a nil book value so another £10M on the right side of things. Yakubu was sold for current net book value (give or take).


So, right now, assuming no significant change in all other things (major purchase, wage bill, massive reduction in turnover/relegation etc. we might look at a Trading Profit of around £10-12M (probably a lot less after a transfer or two, other increased costs)- or perhaps better this current FY which would put us back on a more even keel - if we could post a profit of around £5M to improve the Balance Sheet somewhat that would be a start!!


So, to summarise - nothing to be greatly delighted about but with costs under control we might emerge with a stronger 11-12 position thanks to some careful management, which in turn could see us turn the corner next season if our borrowing costs / facilities were to improve as a consequence.

I wouldn't even hazard a guess at what figures they'll emerge with next year. I know the sales of Beckford, Vaughan and Arteta should have their impact - but they'll find a way of wrapping it all up to suit themselves and what the current situation calls for. Whatever they come up with next year, they'll still have a hefty debt and they'll still be borrowing tv monies two years in advance and that dogs the whole club.