New Everton Stadium Discussion

[blulouie]

Several clubs have shown precisely what you're asking. Many have also redeveloped without any loss of capacity throughout the build. I've explained it several times. The Parkend could be extended to add 6-10k with a corner section and the the bulk of a new upper Bullens would be built above and behind the existing stand joining onto the extended Park end. Then the existing upper removed in close season and lower extended/reprofiled to add more new capacity. Much of this could be achieved at less cost per seat than the Anfield stands, as the construction volume is substantially less due to the considerably lower starting height. Therefore, the cost could be substantially lower than £300m, again as shown by these and other extensions elsewhere.

Approx 28-31k+ of the current capacity is reusable. There is no way that adding 21k or even 30k high value capacity to that will need to come close to the cost of half that of BMD..... and even it was that gap could never be narrowed. In fact, £300m would probably take that capacity comfortably over 60k with more corporate and more boxes than BMD.

That's why the majority of larger clubs have opted for redevelopment. Why the Bernabeu and Nou camp are doing similar... neither of those will look like cheap addlibs. Of course that's before you factor in the value of preservation of history or tradition or removing risk of unproven transport plans.

The clubs you are talking about are longstanding successful clubs with room to expand their current stadiums.
Goodison is not comparable.

Why dont you compare it with Arsenal ,Man City & more recently West Ham ?

Tom give it up mate its gone , done , its over , we are moving to Bramley Moore.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Where does it actually state the build cost has gone up 50% ?
My take for the 750 mil is 550 mil build costs plus the rest ie dock drainage & infill plus the rest of the remedial work.
I've not seen it anywhere that the construction cost that is ( locked in ) has risen at all.

Moshiri himself said it had risen to £750m at a meeting with the shareholders association last summer. The original £500m cost included all preparity works. He has since repeated that figure.

 

[Gardocki]

Several clubs have shown precisely what you're asking. Many have also redeveloped without any loss of capacity throughout the build. I've explained it several times. The Parkend could be extended to add 6-10k with a corner section and the the bulk of a new upper Bullens would be built above and behind the existing stand joining onto the extended Park end. Then the existing upper removed in close season and lower extended/reprofiled to add more new capacity. Much of this could be achieved at less cost per seat than the Anfield stands, as the construction volume is substantially less due to the considerably lower starting height. Therefore, the cost could be substantially lower than £300m, again as shown by these and other extensions elsewhere.

Approx 28-31k+ of the current capacity is reusable. There is no way that adding 21k or even 30k high value capacity to that will need to come close to the cost of half that of BMD..... and even it was that gap could never be narrowed. In fact, £300m would probably take that capacity comfortably over 60k with more corporate and more boxes than BMD.

That's why the majority of larger clubs have opted for redevelopment. Why the Bernabeu and Nou camp are doing similar... neither of those will look like cheap addlibs. Of course that's before you factor in the value of preservation of history or tradition or removing risk of unproven transport plans.

They won't look cheap as they are costing over a billion euros to upgrade.

Neither have needed to go through the arduous, uncertain, and potentially very lengthy process of purchasing loads of third-party residential properties to extend.

 

[blulouie]

Moshiri himself said it had risen to £750m at a meeting with the shareholders association last summer. The original £500m cost included all preparity works. He has since repeated that figure.

Still
I've not seen that reported anywhere , not in any construction journals or any of the media.
Have you , I'd like to see it tbh.

 

[Tom Hughes]

The clubs you are talking about are longstanding successful clubs with room to expand their current stadiums.
Goodison is not comparable.

Why dont you compare it with Arsenal ,Man City & more recently West Ham ?

Tom give it up mate its gone , done , its over , we are moving to Bramley Moore.

Man City and West Ham were freebies. BMD is not! Far from it! In fact, without a major sugar daddy, the debt may have the potential to sink us without trace..... a point not lost on potential loan providers by the looks.

Highbury was listed and had very high value residential on all sides. None of which applied to Goodison. Their funding model was also leveraged by a substantially larger corporate offer and a high value sale of their old site.

Give what up? I'm merely responding to assertions, some of which that were disproved even long before destination Kirkby.

 

[Paulie]

Wasn't that if safe standing was introduced?

Someone mentioned on SSC forum that if the American investors get involved they want to increase it by 6k and it can be done at this stage.

 

[TrailerTrash]

Someone mentioned on SSC forum that if the American investors get involved they want to increase it by 6k and it can be done at this stage.

How would they cram another 6 in?

 

[blulouie]

Moshiri himself said it had risen to £750m at a meeting with the shareholders association last summer. The original £500m cost included all preparity works. He has since repeated that figure.

Jan 12th , less than a month ago Moshiri first used the figure of £760 mil.
He referred to it as the "whole project ", this will include dock drainage/ infill , the Goodison Legacy project plus all the extras that goes with a project this size.
It also states the actual cost just for construction is £505 mil.

Not sure what you have to gain disputing this here mate.

 

[blulouie]

Man City and West Ham were freebies. BMD is not! Far from it! In fact, without a major sugar daddy, the debt may have the potential to sink us without trace..... a point not lost on potential loan providers by the looks.

Highbury was listed and had very high value residential on all sides. None of which applied to Goodison. Their funding model was also leveraged by a substantially larger corporate offer and a high value sale of their old site.

Give what up? I'm merely responding to assertions, some of which that were disproved even long before destination Kirkby.

Tom move on mate you really are grasping at straws mate.

For years you tried to prove Goodison was a viable option , it was proven time & time again it wasn't & indeed deemed not an option.

Tom its gone .

 

[SLAVEN BILIC]

Several clubs have shown precisely what you're asking. Many have also redeveloped without any loss of capacity throughout the build. I've explained it several times. The Parkend could be extended to add 6-10k with a corner section and the the bulk of a new upper Bullens would be built above and behind the existing stand joining onto the extended Park end. Then the existing upper removed in close season and lower extended/reprofiled to add more new capacity. Much of this could be achieved at less cost per seat than the Anfield stands, as the construction volume is substantially less due to the considerably lower starting height. Therefore, the cost could be substantially lower than £300m, again as shown by these and other extensions elsewhere.

Approx 28-31k+ of the current capacity is reusable. There is no way that adding 21k or even 30k high value capacity to that will need to come close to the cost of half that of BMD..... and even it was that gap could never be narrowed. In fact, £300m would probably take that capacity comfortably over 60k with more corporate and more boxes than BMD.

That's why the majority of larger clubs have opted for redevelopment. Why the Bernabeu and Nou camp are doing similar... neither of those will look like cheap addlibs. Of course that's before you factor in the value of preservation of history or tradition or removing risk of unproven transport plans.

So we update the park end and the bullens but the main stand and Street End are penned in and can’t be redeveloped. We still have to deal with 2 awful stands that aren’t. fit for purpose (one’s so dangerous you can get put in a headlock with nobody seeing). BMD isn’t just about capacity, it’s about the experience of the going the game and actually wanting to go. I have a membership to get tickets early and still find myself looking at obstructed views all over the place for £45+, it’s not value for money so I don’t bother half the time. I’d happily pay that price for a better view, comfortable seat, leg room etc in the new stand. Goodison is unfortunately done.

If we were to redevelop the entire ground, we’d have to decimate parts of a community. Whereas when we leave, we’re giving land back for the betterment of that community.

 

[Paulie]

How would they cram another 6 in?

Haven't got a bloody clue ?

 

[Tom Hughes]

They won't look cheap as they are costing over a billion euros to upgrade.

Neither have needed to go through the arduous, uncertain, and potentially very lengthy process of purchasing loads of third-party residential properties to extend.

Yes.... and still substantially cheaper than building the same facility elsewhere both estimated as multiples of the redevelopment cost.

Lengthy process...? We've had decades. These are literally the cheapest houses outside any football ground in the country. 20yrs ago, we owned many of them. Liverpool secured cpos on the many remaining properties they didn't own within weeks of them being granted planning permission. We would need significantly less as only 2 streets abut Bullens Rd...... but let's face it, it cost over £100m just to secure and prep BMD. It's costing several hundred million more than a redevelopment just to get to 52k capacity.... we could've offered 10 times the value for those houses and still not touched a fraction of the cost of BMD.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Jan 12th , less than a month ago Moshiri first used the figure of £760 mil.
He referred to it as the "whole project ", this will include dock drainage/ infill , the Goodison Legacy project plus all the extras that goes with a project this size.
It also states the actual cost just for construction is £505 mil.

Not sure what you have to gain disputing this here mate.

Im a member of the Shareholder's association exec committee. He stated at a meeting with that group that the whole cost of the stadium including prep was originally £500m and that it has increased to £760m. Straight from the horse's mouth! Whether he is lying or inflating that figure, I have no idea.

We also have not secured the funding gap loan, our chief benefactor is sanctioned for the foreseeable and upto last year we were bottom of the FFP league with basketcase financial figures and an owner who had to capitalise massive previous debts.... I'm not sure what you/we have to gain from ignoring those facts.

 

[Dublin blue 75]

How would they cram another 6 in?

The area to the rear of where the upper deck of the west stand will go in does appear to have been built to the original 61K footprint, there is space there to build back further and higher on that deck if needed. Doesn’t appear to be as much space on the east stand side but.

Doable but would need a decision very quickly as the roof strusses start to arrive for the two sides of the stadium. Any adjustment to height either side would be very expensive (funds we don’t presently have) and recall the planning limited our height to what we presently have.

Could be done down the line (a la City) but don’t see it happening in the original build.

 

[Tom Hughes]

So we update the park end and the bullens but the main stand and Street End are penned in and can’t be redeveloped. We still have to deal with 2 awful stands that aren’t. fit for purpose (one’s so dangerous you can get put in a headlock with nobody seeing). BMD isn’t just about capacity, it’s about the experience of the going the game and actually wanting to go. I have a membership to get tickets early and still find myself looking at obstructed views all over the place for £45+, it’s not value for money so I don’t bother half the time. I’d happily pay that price for a better view, comfortable seat, leg room etc in the new stand. Goodison is unfortunately done.

If we were to redevelop the entire ground, we’d have to decimate parts of a community. Whereas when we leave, we’re giving land back for the betterment of that community.

Not at all. For £200-300m all upper tiers could be replaced and/or all obstructions removed. Let's be honest, We knocked down dozens of houses at the park end without a whimper from any blues in protesr.... and at the figures quoted for BMD all residents/tenants could be very handsomely remunerated/relocated and still not get close to those costs. BMD is going to require a significant hike in ticket prices... there is still substantial deprivation in the city. We need cheap seats as well as new high value ones.....

As regards damage to community.... what about the damage to all those local businesses reliant on matchday footfall? Will that shortfall really be met by the legacy project?