Ukraine invasion and the sanction of Oligarchs

[gwladysnight]

Sanctions on a country hurt the poorest the most.

Are you in favour of sanctions on the British for the crimes in Ireland for example? Or do those was crimes not count?

For the time being, we all probably use some Russian gas. So should we be sanctioned? Or if your pension fund has international exposure (and therefore some Russian exposure) same question. Where does the madness end?

No Oligarch's stealing from a country's population hurts the poorest. You seem absolutely fine with that though. As long is the looted money is invested in Everton. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

On 12 December 2011, following the 2011 Russian protests regarding vote-rigging in parliamentary elections, the weekly Kommersant Vlast magazine ran an unflattering issue on Vladimir Putin titled "Victory of United ballot-stuffers" – a pun on Putin's United Russia party.

Usmanov sacked the editor, Maxim Kovalsky, and the head of the publisher's holding company, Andrei Galiyev, saying there had been an "ethical breach" and that the issue "bordered on petty hooliganism".

However, his close pal Farhad Moshiri told his boss he didn't think it was a good idea, and thus is free of any taint whatsoever.

 

[catcherintherye]

Why?
Because USM are a Russian entity and Russia has invaded a European country with no provocation therefore they should be treated as pariahs.
And ,yes ,we should not use their gas or any other product.
But you know this and just seem to have adopted a belligerent apologist stance.

What am I apologising for?

I'm asking a question.

So we should not have any sponsorship, from any country that has started a war then? That rules almost everyone out I'm afraid.

 

[gwladysnight]

It's not on USM mate. He owns less tha 10% of that.

He has a diversified portfolio. Lots of property all over the world.

But you are right, its not sitting in a bank.

I suspect he will know exactly where all of USMs wealth is held, and knows it's well away from b rate government officials as well, who these people run rings around.

Please provide one scrap of evidence for that please.

 

[Efcjake]

Someone's net worth is not what they have in the bank. The vast majority of Moshiri's wealth is almost certainly tied up in Everton and USM. He will never get his money back for Everton in the current climate and USM is now on the US sanctions list.

No but his net worth represents the sum total of his assets and regardless of its liquidity I'm sure many banks would accept it as backing for a loan.

Or do you believe he can only secure a loan if he proves he has the full amount in cash?

Another swing and a miss in your attempts to claim that the stadium won't go through.

 

[Efcjake]

Someone's net worth is not what they have in the bank. The vast majority of Moshiri's wealth is almost certainly tied up in Everton and USM. He will never get his money back for Everton in the current climate and USM is now on the US sanctions list.

This would maybe be a problem if we were building our Stadium in the US...but we aren't.

Again, USM is a sponsor. They do not own EFC and they are not funding the stadium.

Worst case we maybe lose some sponsorship revenue.

 

[radiostar]

As for this effecting the stadium, only if this mystery investor happens to be Uzmanov or one of his companies. If it is we night be in trouble.

If not it shouldn't be a problem?

 

[Efcjake]

No Oligarch's stealing from a country's population hurts the poorest. You seem absolutely fine with that though. As long is the looted money is invested in Everton. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Please explain how Moshiri stole money from Russians.

Cheers.

 

[gwladysnight]

No but his net worth represents the sum total of his assets and regardless of its liquidity I'm sure many banks would accept it as backing for a loan.

Or do you believe he can only secure a loan if he proves he has the full amount in cash?

Another swing and a miss in your attempts to claim that the stadium won't go through.

Banks are good like that. They willingly lend money to people who could have their assets frozen at a moment's notice. It would be an easy sell. Yes the holding company I am the chairman of is on the US sanctions list but can I borrow £500m to build a Stadium please.

 

[Efcjake]

As for this effecting the stadium, only if this mystery investor happens to be Uzmanov or one of his companies. If it is we night be in trouble.

If not it shouldn't be a problem?

What mystery investor?

 

[Efcjake]

Banks are good like that. They willingly lend money to people who could have their assets frozen at a moment's notice. It would be an easy sell. Yes the holding company I am the chairman of is on the US sanctions list but can I borrow £500m to build a Stadium please.

You haven't demonstrated how or why Moshiri's assets will be frozen.

 

[catcherintherye]

No Oligarch's stealing from a country's population hurts the poorest. You seem absolutely fine with that though. As long is the looted money is invested in Everton. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Come on mate, theres no need to personalise something like that.

I am utterly opposed to the process that saw the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich after the Soviet Union broke up. It was the biggest collapse in capitalism history, and a disaster. Look at the mess of Eastern Europe now. Completely stupid idea, based on the vanity and stupidity of Milton Freidman economics.

It's wrong to call this stealing though, or in the case of Moshiri specifically so. I don't know of any case hes ever been charged with, less convicted of. I am always in favour of an honest assessment if a situation. It is not honest to intimate he, or even Usmanov stole directly from people.

The reality is, this transition from poor to rich is the basis of capitalism mate. You wont find a rich person who's done it ethically. Christ, how do Americans or Brits think they built wealth up? It was in most cases from the slave labour built up over hundreds of years.

So if we are going to have this discussion, it needs to be nuanced. I appreciate that people sometimes want easy, binary conclusions. Things are more complex.

I appreciate your take on this. Nothing wrong with disagreement, but let's not stop to making accusations of who is or isnt in favour of things theyve clearly not said they are. ?

 

[gwladysnight]

Please explain how Moshiri stole money from Russians.

Cheers.

Five minutes ago you were telling us his wealth was given to him by Usmanov. A Russian oligarch who made his money when the USSR's assets were broken up.

 

[catcherintherye]

As for this effecting the stadium, only if this mystery investor happens to be Uzmanov or one of his companies. If it is we night be in trouble.

If not it shouldn't be a problem?

Usmanov was never going to fund a stadium. Why would he?

 

[radiostar]

What mystery investor?

Apparently someone or some company has put money forward for the stadium to be built. They haven't revealed or announced who or what company however.

To be honest I'd assume Usmanov but via a different holding company.