The EU deal

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Bruce Wayne said:
In my opinion, UKIP and other populist parties of whatever stripe exist because their constituents are suffering financially, socially or whatever, and these groups emerge to say that this situation has emerged because of some external force. On the left, the boogeyman is capitalism or the Troika. On the right, the boogeyman is migrants. Whatever the argument, it attempts to absolve those actually in the situation of any responsibility for their own plight. Sure, it's attractive, but I'm not sure its right.

Regarding the migration issue, if we're discussing this on self-determination lines, then surely the natural conclusion is that the only people that have any say on where someone should choose to reside is that person, and the person/s that is supporting them in that endeavour (usually an employer). In a self-determined world, it's not really anyone else's business, is it?
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So if an employer decided to import 20 million Chinese then that's OK is it. The UK has built it's infrastructure, hospitals, roads, schools etc over many decades to meet the needs of our population. If a company needs skilled or unskilled employees first they should look to the people within the UK. If that need cannot be filled from within then fine, recruit externally. But uncontrolled immigration that swells the population of this country too quickly and without infrastructure is a recipe for disaster ........
 
peteblue said:
So if an employer decided to import 20 million Chinese then that's OK is it. The UK has built it's infrastructure, hospitals, roads, schools etc over many decades to meet the needs of our population. If a company needs skilled or unskilled employees first they should look to the people within the UK. If that need cannot be filled from within then fine, recruit externally. But uncontrolled immigration that swells the population of this country too quickly and without infrastructure is a recipe for disaster ........
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would love to actually watch this happen....
 

Both EU and British Government are corrupt who represent Corporate interests not the general public. Personally don't know what to vote for. The Tory gov't are trying to put a lid on freedom of expression on social media and other human rights issues as well as running the country into massive debt. They promote zero hour contracts low paid jobs, they have sold public assets and propped up the banking industry at our expense. They cannot be trusted. They talk about the Country being at greater threat of terrorism if we leave the EU while at the same time sell arms to Turkey, Saudi. Boko Haram are using British weapons to murder innocent people. The refugees fleeing the Middle East and other war torn areas are blamed for wanting a better life after Britain drops bombs on them murdering innocent people and leaving generations of people with no homes. Cameron and his cronies should be jailed they are complicit in terrorist actiivities. Cameron and many others are tax dodgers, election fraudsters. They are Criminals and I for one wouldn't trust them. I don't trust the EU. They way they stitched up Greece and Italy was immoral. The day of revolution draws nearer I hope I see these people brought to justice.
 
peteblue said:
It just proves the point that those businesses that wish to cut wages, benefits and undermine good working conditions love the fact that they can bring in poor EU nationals to do their bidding. I cannot believe that the Labour party and the Unions actually go along with this........
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And farage would change that overnight, would he? :dodgy:

Nope. There'd be little immigrant labour, sure, but everyone claiming any sort of welfare would be working for nothing at poundland if that snake had his way. No different to camoron in that respect.
 
JAYMULL said:
Both EU and British Government are corrupt who represent Corporate interests not the general public. Personally don't know what to vote for. The Tory gov't are trying to put a lid on freedom of expression on social media and other human rights issues as well as running the country into massive debt. They promote zero hour contracts low paid jobs, they have sold public assets and propped up the banking industry at our expense. They cannot be trusted. They talk about the Country being at greater threat of terrorism if we leave the EU while at the same time sell arms to Turkey, Saudi. Boko Haram are using British weapons to murder innocent people. The refugees fleeing the Middle East and other war torn areas are blamed for wanting a better life after Britain drops bombs on them murdering innocent people and leaving generations of people with no homes. Cameron and his cronies should be jailed they are complicit in terrorist actiivities. Cameron and many others are tax dodgers, election fraudsters. They are Criminals and I for one wouldn't trust them. I don't trust the EU. They way they stitched up Greece and Italy was immoral. The day of revolution draws nearer I hope I see these people brought to justice.
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I think for me the only difference is that we at least have some power to remove the UK government if they get too bad. For that reason I think I am going to vote to leave.
 

peteblue said:
It just proves the point that those businesses that wish to cut wages, benefits and undermine good working conditions love the fact that they can bring in poor EU nationals to do their bidding. I cannot believe that the Labour party and the Unions actually go along with this........
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Labour was taken over by Oxbridge boys a long time ago.
 
Whistlin' Dixie said:
And farage would change that overnight, would he? :dodgy:

Nope. There'd be little immigrant labour, sure, but everyone claiming any sort of welfare would be working for nothing at poundland if that snake had his way. No different to camoron in that respect.
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I think the point is though that, if you remove mass migration, there would probably be less people on benefits anyway because the level of wages would be considerably higher at that level of the economy than they are now. Associated costs (especially rents) would probably be lower as well.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
In an ideal world yes, they would. We can see in America however that the tech companies there have significant grievances with the immigration restrictions as they can't attract the talent they want.

It seems possible that a vote to leave will be followed with a toughening up on immigration, which may well do the same here.
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I work in that sector and it's almost always nothing more than a cost saving measure. I know people who work and have worked in the Valley. I'm not against immigration when it is used to attract talent and staff the economy needs but I am against it when it is used to drive down existing wages and working conditions. Unfortunately the "attract talent" excuse is used too often to justify the drive down wages reason.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Hasn't really been addressed has it? Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland do quite well out of EU membership, and whilst Scotland has been a bit more prominent due to their recent referendum, the other two haven't said much (that I'm aware of).

Might it trigger a scenario where northern and southern Ireland re-unite, for instance? The Republic already does reasonably in an economic sense by being an English speaking gateway to Europe. It might be economically sensible for them to do so, but politically and socially...
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There is defo a mixed opinion, its likely economically we would be hit increased import and export charges, with the UK being one of our biggest trading partners. But then a brexit would raise our attractiveness from a corporate investment point of view.

I think a reunification wouldnt be on the cards or at all desired apart from a nationalistic point of view, but will certainly create issues from a cross border broad economic policy point of view.

The UK is unlikely to leave really though i would think, why create the problem, if i was in the UK i would be concerned to leave. But i do think Wales and Scotland are getting a raw deal here.
 
tsubaki said:
I think the point is though that, if you remove mass migration, there would probably be less people on benefits anyway because the level of wages would be considerably higher at that level of the economy than they are now. Associated costs (especially rents) would probably be lower as well.
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Wages go up?

Don't be too sure it'd be that simple. Prices'd go up in line. Shareholders & corporates would bemoan the loss of profits due to the decrease in cheap labour. The right-wing remedy'd to be to give them free labour by making people work for their welfare - only wholesale rather than piecemeal.

Get out of the EU, certainly - but because the above is (part of) what I predict would happen, it'd mean we get a proper socialist government in at the next election. I'd rather we had a socialist government a few years after leaving the EU, than be in it under a permanent tory/tory lite one with the EU holding a tenuous check on them from Brussels.
 

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