The EU deal

Cypher · May 25, 2016

mascoq66700 said:
Anyone who thinks a Brexit will improve the NHS might have to think again.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hief-arron-banks-nhs-privatised-a7022306.html

What have the remain campaign chiefs Osbourne and Cameron done?

Cypher · May 25, 2016

tsubaki said:
er - no. Look at (at least in England) how many pieces of legislation were brought in to try and keep people on the land, and to control wages in the aftermath of the Black Death; the old feudal system was - though not without a struggle - dealt a mortal blow by the disease and never recovered.

As for workhouses / kids up chimneys and at t'mill, yes those happened but mainly because there was an over-supply of labour at that time - especially in towns as enclosures / agricultural technological improvements booted a lot of people out of the countryside and into towns, and the domestic small-scale textile industry was destroyed by the larger, more economic mills.

Once the economy caught up, more jobs came about, and labour got better organized, conditions improved fairly constantly up to the high point of 1945-1970.

And this is the point. Better working conditions don't happen because of government (just ask the Greeks how voting in a socialist government helped). Better working conditions happen due to an under supply of workers and bosses being forced to compete for the workers.

tsubaki · May 25, 2016

Cypher said:
And this is the point. Better working conditions don't happen because of government (just ask the Greeks how voting in a socialist government helped). Better working conditions happen due to an under supply of workers and bosses being forced to compete for the workers.

I think the only thing I would change there is to say "better wages", rather than "better working conditions" - governments can (and have) bring about better conditions by legislating away dangerous / immoral practices, often to the benefit of the wider economy (eg: when the old truck system was abolished), and by other measures (such as reducing the cost of housing / healthcare / education by providing them at a national level, which is invariably cheaper than leaving it to individuals).

Joey66 · May 25, 2016

LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
Was watching a bit of the Daily politics the other day, and they put up on the screen seven pictures of men, Harriet Harman was on the show and they asked her if she knew who any of them were, she didn't recognise any of them, so couldn't name them, turned out they all held the top 7 jobs in the EU.

Yes she was bantering on about women in politics, and then 7 top jobs came up of EU top jobs not one women in there and she knew none of them?lol

daylightrobber · May 25, 2016

chrismpw said:
This is a bit of a myth in my eyes. If we had free movement, I wouldn't have had to shell out £80 for a new passport to visit Italy in the summer. There would be no Duanes or border controls at all - but there are.
Furthermore - I wouldn't want free movement. Same reason I lock the front door of my house - I don't mind having guests, but having an open door policy would inevitably result in squatters and theft. If you really are up for this fluffy sounding mystical world of free movement amongst all peoples (so long as they're part of the club), I challenge you to post your address here, and I'll bring my toothbrush if you live in a nicer area than I do.

I live in Keswick. You're welcome to come and stay anytime. If it's a quick visit, I'd love to be able to show you some sights. If you're planning on staying longer it would be appreciated if you took your turn looking after the kids, doing the shopping etc. Rent negotiable.

magicjuan · May 25, 2016

chrismpw said:
That's not what I've been seeing. Sure the out campaign will attract the St George's flag waving, German/Australian/Belgian/French larger drinking xenophobes, and this is an easy target to be used by those who wish to stay in.

The thing I dislike most about the EU is watching the slow erosion of each country's individual differences and culture as they become a superstate. To me the EU seems to be against every nation in its collective. Vive la difference I say.

That is one of my underlying dislikes of the EU, the erosion of independent cultures. It is mapped out as a conquest technique and is portrayed borg-like as assimilate or die.
Nations can trade and collaborate on any project but the concept of negotiating on vetos and policies that are not wanted dilutes any semblance of self determination to the point of ridicule. The distance between peoples and the legislature is already too large, allowing justification and validating by a yes in a referendum will give them unaccountable carte blanche in the future. If they worked for hsrmony and stability for the people that would be fine, but they don't, they work for corporatocracy with a thin veneer of affordable consideration portrayed as philanthropy.

Joey66 · May 25, 2016

Whatever the vote which with the biase in campaign- I can see the EU in complete meltdown one day any way - ask yourselves this here and now if we were not in the EU and had a ballot in June how many would vote to join it with the Euro migration in meltdown???
The same politicians predicted doom and gloom if we did not join the Euro??
Good job we did not one thing to thank Gordon Brown for!

davids · May 25, 2016

Cypher said:
What have the remain campaign chiefs Osbourne and Cameron done?

Sat on their hands like most of the Tory Party,but other than Hunt haven't talked of privatisation.......yet.

Cypher · May 25, 2016

mascoq66700 said:
Sat on their hands like most of the Tory Party,but other than Hunt haven't talked of privatisation.......yet.

Probably because he's the health secretary.

Cypher · May 25, 2016

Joey66 said:
Whatever the vote which with the biase in campaign- I can see the EU in complete meltdown one day any way - ask yourselves this here and now if we were not in the EU and had a ballot in June how many would vote to join it with the Euro migration in meltdown???
The same politicians predicted doom and gloom if we did not join the Euro??
Good job we did not one thing to thank Gordon Brown for!

And the same kind of people who wanted us to join the Euro want us to remain. You may not like those advocating leaving, I don't like them but they have been right about the EU from the beginning.

Polish_Blue_Army · May 25, 2016

If i were british i would vote for leaving the EU

dandydan · May 25, 2016

Joey66 said:
Whatever the vote which with the biase in campaign- I can see the EU in complete meltdown one day any way - ask yourselves this here and now if we were not in the EU and had a ballot in June how many would vote to join it with the Euro migration in meltdown???
The same politicians predicted doom and gloom if we did not join the Euro??
Good job we did not one thing to thank Gordon Brown for!

Pretty much this. The EU is circling the pan and we're better off out of it when it finally dissapears.

daylightrobber · May 25, 2016

dandydan said:
Pretty much this. The EU is circling the pan and we're better off out of it when it finally dissapears.

Either it's going to be a United States of Europe, or its going to disappear? Which is it Brexiters?

chrismpw · May 25, 2016

daylightrobber said:
I live in Keswick. You're welcome to come and stay anytime. If it's a quick visit, I'd love to be able to show you some sights. If you're planning on staying longer it would be appreciated if you took your turn looking after the kids, doing the shopping etc. Rent negotiable.

Ahhhhh Keswick - the foothills to the finest spot on the planet