2015 post UK election discussion

[daylightrobber]

I always vote for whoever I believe is best for the country......

If you think that the country is best when the weakest in society are cast aside I find that very sad. It could be your grandkids on the receiving end.

 

[Mrk]

Baffled that anyone can think that way. If every day of your life someone buys a newspaper that picks and chooses stories that promote one party and criticises another then it's just ridiculous to think that won't influence people. It's not all about the front page on the day of the election it's every single day.

You've just undermined your own argument within the first few words. People BUY a newspaper because they agree with it and it gives them news and comment that they agree with. Nobody is forced to buy the Sun, or indeed the Mirror (which is very tribal for Labour), or the Mail, or the Guardian. People choose.

 

[bizzaro]

If you could back up your 'health tourism' claim with any kind if decent evidence,go ahead. You won't find it though, because the term has been invented to influence people like yourself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19789397

There's some video evidence right there!


From that BIASED-RIGHT WING RAG...

The BBC Panorama.

 

[bring the ghost on]

@bizzaro

We have discussed so-called "health tourism" in the old thread; it's well regarded that it actually costs the NHS less than 0.06% of their budget.

In other words, its a complete non-issue, only discussed by Farage, Daily Mail, etc, to galvanize a bit of fear.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...es-health-tourism-really-cost-nhs-its-not-2bn

 

[bizzaro]

@bizzaro

We have discussed so-called "health tourism" in the old thread; it's well regarded that it actually costs the NHS less than 0.06% of their budget.

In other words, its a complete non-issue, only discussed by Farage, Daily Mail, etc, to galvanize a bit of fear.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...es-health-tourism-really-cost-nhs-its-not-2bn

Its still taking money away from those that may genuinely need it in the UK.

Should be tackled massively.


The UK does not have a bottomless pit of money to use.

 

[bring the ghost on]

You've just undermined your own argument within the first few words. People BUY a newspaper because they agree with it and it gives them news and comment that they agree with. Nobody is forced to buy the Sun, or indeed the Mirror (which is very tribal for Labour), or the Mail, or the Guardian. People choose.

This is ignoring the fact that the right has a monopoly on the ownership of printed press.

 

[davek]

Absolutely and unequivocally, NO.

It's an absolute myth that the press have that much influence. We have a right-wing press because most people buy right-wing newspapers, so you come up with polices that chime with them, not with the people who write the headlines.

Honestly, the Labour party will never win another election until people stop believing in these fallacies.

Utter tripe. Almost the whole of the media are slanted and biased toward a market economy and guess which party that favours?

It's a massive advantage that the Tories have. You'd be squealing like a stuck pig if the Tories had a Labour-compliant media behind them.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

If you think that the country is best when the weakest in society are cast aside I find that very sad. It could be your grandkids on the receiving end.

I went from that position where I had 'opportunity' to struggling to earn a living (cldnt afford to move out of parents) during the 'HER'/Major & Major terms & was earning less 2 years after my apprenticeship than during my 3rd year of it.... and having to work shifts as well. My only option at that point really was to hoike myself abroad to find work.

Those that have never been affected by hardship have absolutely no idea & will spend as much in a nail bar per month as some have to spend on food, it's their money they can do what they want with it but recognise how hard it is for some at least.

 

[1966efc]

This is where the left and right differ. I believe that a compassionate society would provide health care to anyone in need of it.

If you don't believe that, then that's fine, but please don't say ''the left doesn't have a monopoly on compassion and social justice'', because the rest of your post, the last five years and every tory govt in living memory suggests otherwise.

From the repeal of the Corn Laws, through the introduction of the Old Age Pension, NHS, Minimum Wage, Equal Pay for Women, gay rights, every socially progressive measure has been opposed by the Tories.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Its still taking money away from those that may genuinely need it in the UK.

Should be tackled massively.

The UK does not have a bottomless pit of money to use.

Take it in the context of immigration in general; migrants contribute around £16 billion to the economy per year.

With this in mind, why do you think Farage and his cronies are quite so bothered about something which costs the NHS around 0.06% of their budget?

Do you think it could have something to do with another agenda, i.e. a dislike of immigration and an attempt to blame them for our problems?

 

[peteblue]

If you think that the country is best when the weakest in society are cast aside I find that very sad. It could be your grandkids on the receiving end.

We have been through this many times. My social conscience, attitudes and behaviours are no less tuned than your own..... We just differ in how to achieve similar goals......

 

[bizzaro]

Take it in the context of immigration in general; migrants contribute around £16 billion to the economy per year.

With this in mind, why do you think Farage and his cronies are quite so bothered about something which costs the NHS around 0.06% of their budget?

Do you think it could have something to do with another agenda, i.e. a dislike of immigration and an attempt to blame them for our problems?

I'm not a UKIP supporter. In fact I am vehemently anti UKIP. They are a party of liars.

Stop quoting Farage at me as its getting on my nerves.

I'm simply stating facts.

They (earlier) were wrong on the 'legal case' quoting the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights

Health tourism does exist.

The UK does not have a bottomless pit of money and infact is still borrowing heavily.

People need to wake up to this fact.

 

[bring the ghost on]

I'm not a UKIP supporter. In fact I am vehemently anti UKIP. They are a party of liars.

Stop quoting Farage at me as its getting on my nerves.

I'm simply stating facts.

I'm not implying you are a UKIP supporter. However, if you watched the debates, you will recall that the "health tourism" point was something that no one other than Farage cared to even mention. The reason for this is simple (and at the risk of repeating myself); it is a complete non-issue used by people with a clear anti-immigration agenda to scare the public and instill an "us against them" mentality.

 

[daylightrobber]

This country was on the verge of needing an IMF loan in 2010. i.e. bankruptcy.

If you think otherwise you're delusional!

The country needs to be protected. i.e. needs an army, airforce and navy.

The country can only generate more wealth to pay for things like the NHS and everything else if faster trains increase businesses ability to produce wealth! To pay for it all.

THE NATIONAL DEBT UP TO THE END OF THE LAST LABOUR GOVERNMENT.
No country can run huge deficits every year for ever.

The bigger the national debt that builds up, the more expensive it is to meet interest payments. At some point it becomes more difficult and more expensive for governments to borrow extra money because people become reluctant to lend to them.

But we are nowhere near that point in the UK. Let's look more closely at the national debt.

This graph shows how it has gone up since the recession started (as it has in every other major country). You can see that it has gone up from just over 35 per cent of GDP in 2008 to an estimate of just over 60 per cent in 2011. (The GDP is the total wealth the country produces every year.)

That's a pretty scary increase, you might think.

But let's plot the same graph over a longer period of time.

We can see that while the national debt is higher than it's been for some time, it's still lower than it's been for most of the last century. Debt has often been higher in the past – and it goes up after national emergencies such as wars and worldwide recessions. Of course the recession should not be compared to the second world war, but it was still the one of the most catatastrophic events short of a world war.

So is our debt bigger than other countries?
Here's a chart showing national debt in 2008 for a range of prosperous countries.

Again you can see that there is nothing special about the UK's debt when compared to other countries.

And there are two other important differences between the UK and those in much worse circumstances.

• First more than 70 per cent of UK government debt is held within the UK by things like pension funds. It is a mistake to think that our national debt is all owed to other governments or foreign speculators.
• Secondly UK debt is more long-term than many other countries. On average our debts have a pay-back period of 12 years. Countries like Greece need to keep paying back debts and are forced to borrow more to make up for that. The UK does not face any problems refinancing its debts.

Governments need to borrow money all the time as previous loans need to be paid back, or simply because tax does not come in evenly over a year. Even with today's low interest rates the UK government has not had any difficulty borrowing.

Can we afford to pay back the debt?
Of course it would be better to be able to spend the money we use to repay debts on something more desirable. But it does not mean that debt repayments are out of control. This graph shows the proportion of the wealth produced by the country each year that has been used to pay back debts during the last six decades.

We can see that debt repayments have gone up in line with the debt since the recession hit, but they are still lower than in many years in the past.

Here's another way of looking at debt repayments. This shows what proportion of government spending goes on debt repayment. It's gone up in the last few years – but has been much higher in the past.

Of course the Tories continue to increase debt so I suppose it could come soon.

 

[bizzaro]

I'm not implying you are a UKIP supporter. However, if you watched the debates, you will recall that the "health tourism" point was something that no one other than Farage cared to even mention. The reason for this is simple (and at the risk of repeating myself); it is a complete non-issue used by people with a clear anti-immigration agenda to scare people.

I differ. It is an issue it is just not an acknowledged issue as BBC Panorama indicated its a 'black market' and therefore hard to identify real figures as its criminal in nature.

I am pro EU.

However we have to have more control over our borders as the free movement provisions are being abused.


We have to get the deficit under control. People cannot expect everything to be handed to them on a plate as the country does not have the money and is borrowing heavily.

I hate UKIP. Stop quoting Farage at me like you're trying to imply I think like UKIP. I don't.