2015 post UK election discussion

[Chang Elephant]

People BUY a newspaper because they agree with it and it gives them news and comment that they agree with. Nobody is forced to buy the Sun, or indeed the Mirror (which is very tribal for Labour), or the Mail, or the Guardian. People choose.

I buy the Mail near everyday but laugh at the infantile propaganda passed off as political comment inside.

 

[Seanjd]

I'm not a UKIP supporter. In fact I am vehemently anti UKIP. They are a party of liars.

Stop quoting Farage at me as its getting on my nerves.

I'm simply stating facts.

They (earlier) were wrong on the 'legal case' quoting the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights

Health tourism does exist.

The UK does not have a bottomless pit of money and infact is still borrowing heavily.

People need to wake up to this fact.

I heard there's a job going for UKIP leader if you're interested.

 

[daylightrobber]

They (earlier) were wrong on the 'legal case' quoting the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights

That remains to be seen. The government are already under investigation by the UN in relation to Disability Rights.
You raise a good point though. The right wing focus way too much on legalities and how they can negate/avoid them where it suits, rather than considering the moral responsibility. They've done exactly the same with the Child Poverty Act

 

[bizzaro]

THE NATIONAL DEBT UP TO THE END OF THE LAST LABOUR GOVERNMENT.
No country can run huge deficits every year for ever.

The bigger the national debt that builds up, the more expensive it is to meet interest payments. At some point it becomes more difficult and more expensive for governments to borrow extra money because people become reluctant to lend to them.

But we are nowhere near that point in the UK. Let's look more closely at the national debt.

This graph shows how it has gone up since the recession started (as it has in every other major country). You can see that it has gone up from just over 35 per cent of GDP in 2008 to an estimate of just over 60 per cent in 2011. (The GDP is the total wealth the country produces every year.)

That's a pretty scary increase, you might think.

But let's plot the same graph over a longer period of time.

We can see that while the national debt is higher than it's been for some time, it's still lower than it's been for most of the last century. Debt has often been higher in the past – and it goes up after national emergencies such as wars and worldwide recessions. Of course the recession should not be compared to the second world war, but it was still the one of the most catatastrophic events short of a world war.

So is our debt bigger than other countries?
Here's a chart showing national debt in 2008 for a range of prosperous countries.

Again you can see that there is nothing special about the UK's debt when compared to other countries.

And there are two other important differences between the UK and those in much worse circumstances.

• First more than 70 per cent of UK government debt is held within the UK by things like pension funds. It is a mistake to think that our national debt is all owed to other governments or foreign speculators.
• Secondly UK debt is more long-term than many other countries. On average our debts have a pay-back period of 12 years. Countries like Greece need to keep paying back debts and are forced to borrow more to make up for that. The UK does not face any problems refinancing its debts.

Governments need to borrow money all the time as previous loans need to be paid back, or simply because tax does not come in evenly over a year. Even with today's low interest rates the UK government has not had any difficulty borrowing.

Can we afford to pay back the debt?
Of course it would be better to be able to spend the money we use to repay debts on something more desirable. But it does not mean that debt repayments are out of control. This graph shows the proportion of the wealth produced by the country each year that has been used to pay back debts during the last six decades.

We can see that debt repayments have gone up in line with the debt since the recession hit, but they are still lower than in many years in the past.

Here's another way of looking at debt repayments. This shows what proportion of government spending goes on debt repayment. It's gone up in the last few years – but has been much higher in the past.

Of course the Tories continue to increase debt so I suppose it could come soon.

We were close to bankruptcy since the international creditors were unhappy.

It is those that decide if the UK is solvent or not and if they will give future loans.

If they think that they will not get their money back or a default the UK will quickly slide into difficulties.

Due to the sheer size of the UK debt.


This is a fact. You can dispute it all you want. The Coalition were right we would have been in a 'firestorm' if we do not get the deficit and our debts under control!

 

[peteblue]

I buy the Mail near everyday but laugh at the infantile propaganda passed off as political comment inside.

But it obviously convinced you to vote Tory, yes...........

 

[Chang Elephant]

We have been through this many times. My social conscience, attitudes and behaviours are no less tuned than your own..... We just differ in how to achieve similar goals......

You vote Conservative to help the weakest in society ? interesting

 

[bizzaro]

That remains to be seen. The government are already under investigation by the UN in relation to Disability Rights.
You raise a good point though. The right wing focus way too much on legalities and how they can negate/avoid them where it suits, rather than considering the moral responsibility. They've done exactly the same with the Child Poverty Act

This is nonsense. You claimed there was a legal responsibility. There was none.

Now you claim there is a moral responsibility.

There is a 'moral responsibility' of every citizen to work pay taxes to fund the health system.

Not just expect that everything will be given to them.

 

[bizzaro]

I heard there's a job going for UKIP leader if you're interested.

Negged.

 

[daylightrobber]

We have been through this many times. My social conscience, attitudes and behaviours are no less tuned than your own..... We just differ in how to achieve similar goals......

I know. But how would you feel knowing that your grandkids didn't have enough food whilst the government said "sorry guys we can't help right now, give us a few years to sort it out by allowing the rich to pay less tax"

 

[daylightrobber]

This is nonsense. You claimed there was a legal responsibility. There was none.

Now you claim there is a moral responsibility.

There is a 'moral responsibility' of every citizen to work pay taxes to fund the health system.

Not just expect that everything will be given to them.

There is absolutely a legal responsibility.

Another one who blames the poor for being poor. No one expects everything to be given to them. Some folk simply don't have the same opportunities, others lack ability or physicality etc. What these people deserve is a just deal.

 

[Toffeelover]

going as Mussolini?

Cheeky beggar! Could have been a good idea, I do have Italian ancestry on my Mum's side. Grandma's maiden name was Pappini!

 

[bizzaro]

There is absolutely a legal responsibility.

Another one who blames the poor for being poor. No one expects everything to be given to them. Some folk simply don't have the same opportunities, others lack ability or physicality etc. What these people deserve is a just deal.

There is no legal responsibility. Claiming there is shows you don't know international or UK law!

 

[Toffeelover]

I buy the Mail near everyday but laugh at the infantile propaganda passed off as political comment inside.

So at what 2 quid a day plus weekends at 2..50 that is £780. Good on yer, Cocker supporting the Tory mouthpiece and helping the Mail's profits.

 

[Guest89]

I'm hoping Labour go back to the centre. As Tony Blair prophetically said back in January, if you fight a centre left vs centre right fight, the centre right is always going to win (the only hope Miliband would have had is if the Tories had moved even further right to counteract UKIP, but in the end, UKIP itself moved left to appeal to people in the north so they stayed quite central).

As goes the election result in general, I'm not sure where I stand. I'll judge this government on the merits of what it does (rather than instantly buying into the hysteria that the NHS is doomed and union won't exist in 5 years time). All things considered I give the government of the last 5 years a 7/10, but I also credited the Lib Dems with a lot of what I liked most. That all said, David Cameron, since he became the conservative leader, has always tried to paint himself as a reformer and a more liberal Tory. Without the Lib Dems about and a slender majority with more hard-line back benchers to pander to, it'll be interesting how he goes about things. His early noises seem alright, I'm a big believer in devolving power, not just to Scotland but regionally too, far more local accountability, if he sorts that quickly, that will be a big plus.

 

[daylightrobber]

There is no legal responsibility. Claiming there is shows you don't know international or UK law!

The Child Poverty Act is a UK law which this Government are failing to comply with. Child poverty is not being reduced by 100k a year - it's going up. It will not be 5% by 2020. The government are breaking the law.