2015 post UK election discussion

[Tree13]

The Child Poverty Act is a UK law which this Government are failing to comply with. Child poverty is not being reduced by 100k a year - it's going up. It will not be 5% by 2020. The government are breaking the law.

Government efforts to reduce child poverty can of course be stymied quite dramatically by anyone who decides to have kids despite lacking the finances to support and raise them. This is the elephant in the room which Labour supporters ignore and the Tories cannot risk mentioning.

Why on earth people choose to have children when they are already struggling financially without them is utterly beyond me. It is NOT the state's role to pick up the pieces, regardless of cost, of every single bad life decision made by every person in the country. There is a difference between having compassion and making provision for the genuinely vulnerable in society, and just bankrolling every feckless irresponsible layabout you can find simply so you can pontificate about how self-righteous you are.

I have stayed out of this thread for as long as possible, because it's blindingly obvious that there is a massive bias in favour of Labour on this forum as a whole. That's fine, everyone is entitled to have their own views on politics, and at least everyone on here voted... or did they? However, you would all do very well to remember that the ONLY party to poll over 10 million votes the other day was the Conservatives. The simple fact of the matter is, more people think they are right than agree with Labour. That's it. If you don't like living in a democracy, I don't really know what to say to you.

 

[marty mcfly]

The armed forces? A specialist hospital? Care for three million plus elderly? Legislative overview of education, food hygiene, immigration?

The defining argument for Socialism is that there are many areas where the best results for the majority of people are obtained through collective enterprise. Never heard a convincing discussion to the contrary.

Look lets bring this down a notch. There is definitely things best handled by the state. Business regulation to protect the little guy would be one big one for me however it's about finding the balance.

The reason Labour lost both elections was because they shifted too far to the left. The Tories will loose the next election if they let their idelogues shift them too far to the right.

The reason why they won and so handsomely was because the Liberals anchored them to the centre however the electorate seems to either not give them the credit or simply because they couldn't forgive them for their u-turn on tutition fees and other policies along with a few other factors like the rise of the SNP.

 

[Toffeelover]

I also have Sky, buy services from corporate owned utility companies, buy cars from foreign multinationals, and shop at large supermarkets. Got to break it to you that that's not endorsing capitalism, it's living in it.

Is there any reason why right wing arguments are so pitiful ?

Not sure I understand that one Chang. Some right wing arguments make a lot of sense as do some Left wing ones.

Shhh, don't tell DaveK but I like reading a certain newspaper, cough, cough, The Times! so I am right in there with you Buddy. Don't buy it though, read the copy that is purchased by the Gym I go to.

 

[marty mcfly]

That nagging right wing thought in me is telling me that these children should be put in workhouses and the mothers sent off to magdalene asylums. I think @Adversus would agree with that.

I know kids from my school who grew up in catholic run children homes. They did really well. I'm not convinced keeping them with their parents is the best idea.

 

[marty mcfly]

Not sure I understand that one Chang. Some right wing arguments make a lot of sense as do some Left wing ones.

Shhh, don't tell DaveK but I like reading a certain newspaper, cough, cough, The Times! so I am right in there with you Buddy. Don't buy it though, read the copy that is purchased by the Gym I go to.

The Times is very to the centre. That would be my paper of choice too.

 

[Toffeelover]

If you are at all interested have a look at www.crowwood.com, my wife and I are members.

 

[marty mcfly]

Hindsight is wonderful. Eveyone from all political persuasions thought it was the right time to invest in previously neglected infrastructure etc.

No they didn't. Keynesian economics say they should pay of the debt during boom time. It was basic economics and why the electorate wouldn't trust Labour again.

 

[marty mcfly]

Government efforts to reduce child poverty can of course be stymied quite dramatically by anyone who decides to have kids despite lacking the finances to support and raise them. This is the elephant in the room which Labour supporters ignore and the Tories cannot risk mentioning.

Why on earth people choose to have children when they are already struggling financially without them is utterly beyond me. It is NOT the state's role to pick up the pieces, regardless of cost, of every single bad life decision made by every person in the country. There is a difference between having compassion and making provision for the genuinely vulnerable in society, and just bankrolling every feckless irresponsible layabout you can find simply so you can pontificate about how self-righteous you are.

I have stayed out of this thread for as long as possible, because it's blindingly obvious that there is a massive bias in favour of Labour on this forum as a whole. That's fine, everyone is entitled to have their own views on politics, and at least everyone on here voted... or did they? However, you would all do very well to remember that the ONLY party to poll over 10 million votes the other day was the Conservatives. The simple fact of the matter is, more people think they are right than agree with Labour. That's it. If you don't like living in a democracy, I don't really know what to say to you.

THIS

 

[rascal]

No they didn't. Keynesian economics say they should pay of the debt during boom time. It was basic economics and why the electorate wouldn't trust Labour again.

Keynesian economics also says that you invest when times are bad.

 

[marty mcfly]

It depends why you borrow the money and at what rate. As a country that pays it's bills we can borrow at really good rates and if the money is spent on real investment and not used as a revenue substitute then it's good to do......

I've no problem with borrowing to invest. But not borrowing to grow the state which is what happened. The problems started when Brown shifted Labour's policies away from the Major government's blueprint to the left.

 

[marty mcfly]

Keynesian economics also says that you invest when times are bad.

When they're bad. Not practically in a depression.

 

[Seanjd]

Not for the last almost 10 years since I'm married. Why is it so hard to comprehend someone not wanting to pay for other men's kids or being pissed at women who do nothing except exist to be baby factories.

I sense an air of sexism in many of your posts.

 

[daylightrobber]

Government efforts to reduce child poverty can of course be stymied quite dramatically by anyone who decides to have kids despite lacking the finances to support and raise them. This is the elephant in the room which Labour supporters ignore and the Tories cannot risk mentioning.

Why on earth people choose to have children when they are already struggling financially without them is utterly beyond me. It is NOT the state's role to pick up the pieces, regardless of cost, of every single bad life decision made by every person in the country. There is a difference between having compassion and making provision for the genuinely vulnerable in society, and just bankrolling every feckless irresponsible layabout you can find simply so you can pontificate about how self-righteous you are.

I have stayed out of this thread for as long as possible, because it's blindingly obvious that there is a massive bias in favour of Labour on this forum as a whole. That's fine, everyone is entitled to have their own views on politics, and at least everyone on here voted... or did they? However, you would all do very well to remember that the ONLY party to poll over 10 million votes the other day was the Conservatives. The simple fact of the matter is, more people think they are right than agree with Labour. That's it. If you don't like living in a democracy, I don't really know what to say to you.

Hey up folks. The return of the rich kids for rich parents only argument.

Your lingo is very telling. You judge people when you have no idea of the reality they face.

If you think child poverty exists because poor families have kids as opposed to crap job opportunities (including part time and zero hours work) and crap wages for parents you're massively mistaken.

The bill currently being picked up for supporting children is across the spectrum. There's pretty wealthy families who help account for it too through the obvious things such as maternity leave, child benefit, free prescriptions and dental care. But then there's also tax breaks on clothing and on air travel which are very much luxuries for some.

I don't think that many of us who only really want to pontificate about how self righteous we are (despite the fact that it appears many of us are putting money where are mouths are) are going to forget any time soon that we have 5 more years of ideological cuts to look forwards to.

 

[marty mcfly]

Government efforts to reduce child poverty can of course be stymied quite dramatically by anyone who decides to have kids despite lacking the finances to support and raise them. This is the elephant in the room which Labour supporters ignore and the Tories cannot risk mentioning.

Why on earth people choose to have children when they are already struggling financially without them is utterly beyond me. It is NOT the state's role to pick up the pieces, regardless of cost, of every single bad life decision made by every person in the country. There is a difference between having compassion and making provision for the genuinely vulnerable in society, and just bankrolling every feckless irresponsible layabout you can find simply so you can pontificate about how self-righteous you are.

I have stayed out of this thread for as long as possible, because it's blindingly obvious that there is a massive bias in favour of Labour on this forum as a whole. That's fine, everyone is entitled to have their own views on politics, and at least everyone on here voted... or did they? However, you would all do very well to remember that the ONLY party to poll over 10 million votes the other day was the Conservatives. The simple fact of the matter is, more people think they are right than agree with Labour. That's it. If you don't like living in a democracy, I don't really know what to say to you.

And get others to pay for your self-righteousness and then label the ones that don't bastards for not wanting to pay more.

That's the bit that gets me.

 

[marty mcfly]

I sense an air of sexism in many of your posts.

Unless you think saying it's women who have kids is sexist.

I think it's stating biological fact unless you think that Swanzenegger movie is a documentary.