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2015 post UK election discussion

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Self righteousness is a two way street.

How about agreeing that you should meet need where you see it. Or should we have a mental dialogue about the cause and effect of it before making or neglecting to make provision for it?
 
1966efc said:
Self righteousness is a two way street.

How about agreeing that you should meet need where you see it. Or should we have a mental dialogue about the cause and effect of it before making or neglecting to make provision for it?
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No it's not. We aren't saying we're morally right just practically right. It's the left that bring morality into this.
 
Adversus said:
And get others to pay for your self-righteousness and then label the ones that don't bastards for not wanting to pay more.

That's the bit that gets me.
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Your contempt for the poor is a disgrace. There's no need for it. There are just as many wealthy people who exploit the poor by paying craps wages and dodging tax. They genuinely are bastards.
 
Adversus said:
No it's not. We aren't saying we're morally right just practically right. It's the left that bring morality into this.
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Yes it is.

And you exemplify it perfectly.

How you treat other people is always, repeat always, a question of ethics.
 

peteblue said:
An interesting stat.....

A total of 1,454,436 people voted for the SNP and 1,617,989 people voted for Scottish independence.........
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A lot of people entitled to vote in the referendum who weren't at the election? The 16 - 18 year olds probably.
 
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1966efc said:
Yes it is.

And you exemplify it perfectly.

How you treat other people is always, repeat always, a question of ethics.
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How you treat?

No one is treating anyone any way. It's a matter of who pays for and what. I don't care what anyone does I just don't think every choice people make should be financed by other people.

The important thing also to remember is you also aren't inclined to help people who you know wouldn't help you. That's the reason I believe charity and public service should be a local thing because then you can judge whether you feel it's appropriate. The reality is no one really cares about the people who make up the statistics. Not you, not me, not anyone. That's how our brains work. We care about the people we know and when I have to make sacrifices for them to fund people I don't know and probably don't agree with then it's a bit hard to take.

Seriously look at the statistics of who pays the majority (not %) of tax to finance the public services. Calling them greedy bastards isn't going to make them want to pay more.
 

daylightrobber said:
Your contempt for the poor is a disgrace. There's no need for it. There are just as many wealthy people who exploit the poor by paying craps wages and dodging tax. They genuinely are bastards.
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I don't have contempt for the poor. I think we should invest more in local projects that improve the areas and give people hope. I just don't think that is achieved through putting people on benifits and leaving them to rot.

There are also a lot of people who do exploit the poor but even then it's more complicated. Some times what appears exploitation is simply the result of having to run a business efficiently because if you don't then the business wouldn't survive and everyone would be out of work.

Stop with this insulting narritive. 50% of the people voted Tory.
 
After reading a few posts in here about governments responsibility for the welfare of " other mens" kids,what the opinion on overseas aid surely its their own fault they starve,go homeless and live in a shithole why should we help
 
daylightrobber said:
Hey up folks. The return of the rich kids for rich parents only argument.

Your lingo is very telling. You judge people when you have no idea of the reality they face.

If you think child poverty exists because poor families have kids as opposed to crap job opportunities (including part time and zero hours work) and crap wages for parents you're massively mistaken.

The bill currently being picked up for supporting children is across the spectrum. There's pretty wealthy families who help account for it too through the obvious things such as maternity leave, child benefit, free prescriptions and dental care. But then there's also tax breaks on clothing and on air travel which are very much luxuries for some.

I don't think that many of us who only really want to pontificate about how self righteous we are (despite the fact that it appears many of us are putting money where are mouths are) are going to forget any time soon that we have 5 more years of ideological cuts to look forwards to.
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LOL.

"Labour supporter demonizes opinion that differs to their own" - shocker.

Read my post a little more carefully pal. I said nothing at all about "rich kids for rich parents only" (which incidentally is nonsense - how does anyone choose to have a rich kid?). I simply said that people should cut their coat according to their cloth. Once that is done, there will be proportionally more funding available to help the genuinely vulnerable and needy.

My household income does not stretch to having four kids so guess what - I haven't chosen to have four kids. Others have them and then go cap in hand to the state. Many of us - and there are more of us than there are of you, according to the election results - think that's wrong. It does not qualify as genuine vulnerability or need. In fact, it takes vital funding and support AWAY from those in genuine need. You can bleat all you like about how the rich should pay more in tax to fund the welfare state, but until you address the issues that the rich regard as "abuses" then rightly or wrongly, they will refuse to contribute more. And before you say "well they should leave then", please consider what happens to your tax income per year if richer people (who pay more tax) start leaving.

The majority of the country has rejected Labour's self-righteous pontificating, and their relentless borrow-and-spend economics. Deal with it.
 
Adversus said:
I don't have contempt for the poor. I think we should invest more in local projects that improve the areas and give people hope. I just don't think that is achieved through putting people on benifits and leaving them to rot.

There are also a lot of people who do exploit the poor but even then it's more complicated. Some times what appears exploitation is simply the result of having to run a business efficiently because if you don't then the business wouldn't survive and everyone would be out of work.

Stop with this insulting narritive. 50% of the people voted Tory.
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But that is Labours ethos, so it is gospel to the majority on here
 
jaycee said:
After reading a few posts in here about governments responsibility for the welfare of " other mens" kids,what the opinion on overseas aid surely its their own fault they starve,go homeless and live in a shithole why should we help
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Overseas aid is a mostly used for diplomatic purposes probably to advance the commercial needs of multi-national corporations. It's the reason the Tories ring-fenced it.

The reality is that other countries have to learn to help themselves. What we should be doing is not interferring and letting them develop naturally.

Globalization and business investment will grow them out of poverty not handouts.

And again that doesn't mean all overseas aid.
 

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