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6 + 2 Point Deductions

LEONARD said:
God help Man City, but we all know that by the time their turn comes, it will be a fine and a slap on the wrist.

The establishment hates us.

A time for us all to stick together, avoid relegation and FCUK em!
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Been of the opinion for a while now the rest will regret the day we did not allow them to run off and form their super league. No more so than Everton FC tonight. Not much point in it all it's so far removed as being a sporting spectacle.
 
blueloon said:
I posted this in another thread, this was the bottom line of it “

“ Its mismanagement led to that threshold being exceeded by £19.5 million.
139. This was a serious breach that requires a significant penalty. The Commission considers that it should order an immediate deduction of 10 points.”“

When the Commission rejected the PL s formula they wrote :
“We therefore decline to adopt the structured formula proposed by the Premier League. We will determine the appropriate sanction according to all the circumstances of the case, including (as required by Rules W50&51) any mitigating factors.”
So I agree , it does leave the door open for an appeal that the punishment is harsh.
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This part at least is a silver lining for us. Since our appeal rests entirely on the severity of the punishment and not the determination of guilt (by our own admission), this is the point we have to push hard - that the sanction was not in fact "appropriate...according to all the circumstances of the case."


PeregrineT said:
Unfortunately I read the whole thing because Im weirdly into that stuff. So to sum up what the commission found:

1. The league would not let Everton capitalize the stadium costs of over 50 million because the project was not deemed "probable" yet, while letting others do that as their were considered "probable". Until planning approval was confirmed, Everton were required to include the costs in their P&S.

2. The league suspended Sigurdsson, for whom charges were eventually dropped, not allowing Everton to either use him to compete, or sell him.

3. The UK Government banned USM from any sponsorship, obviously including Everton

4. The league then rejected all of Everton's exclusions for 20/21 such as 17.4 million going to the stadium financing, 5.8 million to youth development, 10 million for Sigurdsson, and 61 million for covid related player trading losses.

5. In the end the commission basically said Everton should have sued Sigurdsson, and because Moshiri provided interest free loans, rather than at the normal interest rate we are over the P&S.

6. "The Premier League has made it clear that it makes no allegation of dishonesty. We consider, therefore, that Everton did not consciously intend to circumvent the Rules" and "Everton may have taken unwise risks, but it did so in the mistaken belief that it would achieve PSR compliance: it is not a case of a deliberate breach." and about us losing a stadium sponsorship from USM, "First, the prospects of an agreement having been concluded are uncertain. We were not shown any contemporaneous documents to show that receipt of the monies was probable" which of course is one of the more ignorant things Ive seen someone say.

Making the punishment look way beyond what it should be, and not a good look for the league, especially the stadium financing issue.

That said it also appears that Moshiri and the board did:

1. Moshiri provided interest free loans to the stadium group PURELY for the sake of manipulating lenders, by making it look like a more attractive investment. So he kept one set of books for the league, and another for potential lenders. If he hadnt of done this, regardless of the leagues bad rules(in my opinion) on the matter they could have excluded the interest and wouldnt have been a breach.
2. They were told by the league in 2021 that they wouldn't except the exclusions, and the 2022 books would be reviewed to determine if they went over the threshold. They ignored this and carried on as if the league was wrong on the subject.
3. They said they were within P&S rules, and then amended their response to the commission to remove mitigations such as the financing etc, basically admitting fault and killing the effects of any appeal.
4. Kenwright handled the Keane sale, AKA, did nothing and this alone would probably have saved any breach.

Basically the league screwed the club with making us put the stadium costs in our P&S, we signed a special agreement that then handcuffed us for the future, then the accountant in Moshiri forgot how to do accounting and literally could have just avoided the issue by moving the numbers to the right boxes, or Kenwright could have sold Keane. In short we legitimately spent less than 105m on player costs and abided by the spirit of the rules, but we accounted for the stadium costs wrong in an attempt to manipulate lenders, and then tried to obfuscate.
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Think this is a dang good summation: the League quite probably had it out for us, at least to a degree, but rather than work around that intelligently to save ourselves, we bumbled right into their hands due to the utter incompetency at the top of the club. Moshiri / Kenwright couldn't even manage to be shady correctly.
 

Everton are supposed to make a groveling appeal and be happy when some or all of the sentence is suspended - leaving it to hang over the club and set a precedent for leaving others off the hook.

I'm sure I'll see sense, but my feeling today is that the club should withdraw from the process - effectivley refuse to recognise court. Everton won't be relegated this season even with 10 points taken off - I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of appealing.
 
PeregrineT said:
Unfortunately I read the whole thing because Im weirdly into that stuff. So to sum up what the commission found:

1. The league would not let Everton capitalize the stadium costs of over 50 million because the project was not deemed "probable" yet, while letting others do that as their were considered "probable". Until planning approval was confirmed, Everton were required to include the costs in their P&S.

2. The league suspended Sigurdsson, for whom charges were eventually dropped, not allowing Everton to either use him to compete, or sell him.

3. The UK Government banned USM from any sponsorship, obviously including Everton

4. The league then rejected all of Everton's exclusions for 20/21 such as 17.4 million going to the stadium financing, 5.8 million to youth development, 10 million for Sigurdsson, and 61 million for covid related player trading losses.

5. In the end the commission basically said Everton should have sued Sigurdsson, and because Moshiri provided interest free loans, rather than at the normal interest rate we are over the P&S.

6. "The Premier League has made it clear that it makes no allegation of dishonesty. We consider, therefore, that Everton did not consciously intend to circumvent the Rules" and "Everton may have taken unwise risks, but it did so in the mistaken belief that it would achieve PSR compliance: it is not a case of a deliberate breach." and about us losing a stadium sponsorship from USM, "First, the prospects of an agreement having been concluded are uncertain. We were not shown any contemporaneous documents to show that receipt of the monies was probable" which of course is one of the more ignorant things Ive seen someone say.

Making the punishment look way beyond what it should be, and not a good look for the league, especially the stadium financing issue.

That said it also appears that Moshiri and the board did:

1. Moshiri provided interest free loans to the stadium group PURELY for the sake of manipulating lenders, by making it look like a more attractive investment. So he kept one set of books for the league, and another for potential lenders. If he hadnt of done this, regardless of the leagues bad rules(in my opinion) on the matter they could have excluded the interest and wouldnt have been a breach.
2. They were told by the league in 2021 that they wouldn't except the exclusions, and the 2022 books would be reviewed to determine if they went over the threshold. They ignored this and carried on as if the league was wrong on the subject.
3. They said they were within P&S rules, and then amended their response to the commission to remove mitigations such as the financing etc, basically admitting fault and killing the effects of any appeal.
4. Kenwright handled the Keane sale, AKA, did nothing and this alone would probably have saved any breach.

Basically the league screwed the club with making us put the stadium costs in our P&S, we signed a special agreement that then handcuffed us for the future, then the accountant in Moshiri forgot how to do accounting and literally could have just avoided the issue by moving the numbers to the right boxes, or Kenwright could have sold Keane. In short we legitimately spent less than 105m on player costs and abided by the spirit of the rules, but we accounted for the stadium costs wrong in an attempt to manipulate lenders, and then tried to obfuscate.
Click to expand...

so we’re doomed or not?
 

IMG_7006.webp
 
davek said:
We cant cope with that deduction.

Not at all.

A 48-50 point season is needed and we're still off that rate with DCL and Tarkowski being fit.

A key injury is all this takes now to relegate us.

Make no mistake that decision today relegated us.

All the bravado of "we can easily get clear" is BS. We cant.
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Would love to see your workings here dave.
 

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