6 + 2 Point Deductions

Yep absolutely need to protest and civil disobedience against the PL, maximum disruption right where it hurts, starting against Utd.
Yes and no. Obviously there needs to be protest. There doesn't need to be carnage. As I said up the thread all we need is the players to keep doing what they've been doing and we are clear in no time. There can be justified anger but there doesn't need to be an air of chaos or panic. We just need the players to stay calm and so to some extent we need to stay calm.
 
IMG_3490.webp
 

Well, at least we know what we are dealing with, no more "maybe this or that will happen". The club can now get on with the appeal process while the team can hopefully push on with their recent good form and continue to climb the table.

Everton were always going to appeal a points deduction no matter what. If the punishment was 5 or 6pts to start with, there would be very little wiggle room for the 'powers that be' when said appeal is made.

How I see it is: The 'powers that be' wanted to hand out a 5 or 6pts deduction, 12pts is leaked by whoever, but then we actually get deducted 10pts in the knowledge that the Club will appeal. Everton appeals and the punishment will then be reduced to the 5 or 6pts that the 'powers that be' originally wanted. The club and fans go away happy(ish) because they "won" the appeal, the 'powers that be' are happy because they got what they wanted in the first place.


Anyway, that's just my take on how it will all pan out in the end. But do bear in mind that I know fk all about anything, so take what I write with a pinch of salt ;)
 
Unfortunately I read the whole thing because Im weirdly into that stuff. So to sum up what the commission found:

1. The league would not let Everton capitalize the stadium costs of over 50 million because the project was not deemed "probable" yet, while letting others do that as their were considered "probable". Until planning approval was confirmed, Everton were required to include the costs in their P&S.

2. The league suspended Sigurdsson, for whom charges were eventually dropped, not allowing Everton to either use him to compete, or sell him.

3. The UK Government banned USM from any sponsorship, obviously including Everton

4. The league then rejected all of Everton's exclusions for 20/21 such as 17.4 million going to the stadium financing, 5.8 million to youth development, 10 million for Sigurdsson, and 61 million for covid related player trading losses.

5. In the end the commission basically said Everton should have sued Sigurdsson, and because Moshiri provided interest free loans, rather than at the normal interest rate we are over the P&S.

6. "The Premier League has made it clear that it makes no allegation of dishonesty. We consider, therefore, that Everton did not consciously intend to circumvent the Rules" and "Everton may have taken unwise risks, but it did so in the mistaken belief that it would achieve PSR compliance: it is not a case of a deliberate breach." and about us losing a stadium sponsorship from USM, "First, the prospects of an agreement having been concluded are uncertain. We were not shown any contemporaneous documents to show that receipt of the monies was probable" which of course is one of the more ignorant things Ive seen someone say.

Making the punishment look way beyond what it should be, and not a good look for the league, especially the stadium financing issue.

That said it also appears that Moshiri and the board did:

1. Moshiri provided interest free loans to the stadium group PURELY for the sake of manipulating lenders, by making it look like a more attractive investment. So he kept one set of books for the league, and another for potential lenders. If he hadnt of done this, regardless of the leagues bad rules(in my opinion) on the matter they could have excluded the interest and wouldnt have been a breach.
2. They were told by the league in 2021 that they wouldn't except the exclusions, and the 2022 books would be reviewed to determine if they went over the threshold. They ignored this and carried on as if the league was wrong on the subject.
3. They said they were within P&S rules, and then amended their response to the commission to remove mitigations such as the financing etc, basically admitting fault and killing the effects of any appeal.
4. Kenwright handled the Keane sale, AKA, did nothing and this alone would probably have saved any breach.

Basically the league screwed the club with making us put the stadium costs in our P&S, we signed a special agreement that then handcuffed us for the future, then the accountant in Moshiri forgot how to do accounting and literally could have just avoided the issue by moving the numbers to the right boxes, or Kenwright could have sold Keane. In short we legitimately spent less than 105m on player costs and abided by the spirit of the rules, but we accounted for the stadium costs wrong in an attempt to manipulate lenders, and then tried to obfuscate.
Thanks for the useful summary. Although we have made significant missteps it's just so hard to see how it adds up to the most severe punishment ever handed down.
 
Unfortunately I read the whole thing because Im weirdly into that stuff. So to sum up what the commission found:

1. The league would not let Everton capitalize the stadium costs of over 50 million because the project was not deemed "probable" yet, while letting others do that as their were considered "probable". Until planning approval was confirmed, Everton were required to include the costs in their P&S.

2. The league suspended Sigurdsson, for whom charges were eventually dropped, not allowing Everton to either use him to compete, or sell him.

3. The UK Government banned USM from any sponsorship, obviously including Everton

4. The league then rejected all of Everton's exclusions for 20/21 such as 17.4 million going to the stadium financing, 5.8 million to youth development, 10 million for Sigurdsson, and 61 million for covid related player trading losses.

5. In the end the commission basically said Everton should have sued Sigurdsson, and because Moshiri provided interest free loans, rather than at the normal interest rate we are over the P&S.

6. "The Premier League has made it clear that it makes no allegation of dishonesty. We consider, therefore, that Everton did not consciously intend to circumvent the Rules" and "Everton may have taken unwise risks, but it did so in the mistaken belief that it would achieve PSR compliance: it is not a case of a deliberate breach." and about us losing a stadium sponsorship from USM, "First, the prospects of an agreement having been concluded are uncertain. We were not shown any contemporaneous documents to show that receipt of the monies was probable" which of course is one of the more ignorant things Ive seen someone say.

Making the punishment look way beyond what it should be, and not a good look for the league, especially the stadium financing issue.

That said it also appears that Moshiri and the board did:

1. Moshiri provided interest free loans to the stadium group PURELY for the sake of manipulating lenders, by making it look like a more attractive investment. So he kept one set of books for the league, and another for potential lenders. If he hadnt of done this, regardless of the leagues bad rules(in my opinion) on the matter they could have excluded the interest and wouldnt have been a breach.
2. They were told by the league in 2021 that they wouldn't except the exclusions, and the 2022 books would be reviewed to determine if they went over the threshold. They ignored this and carried on as if the league was wrong on the subject.
3. They said they were within P&S rules, and then amended their response to the commission to remove mitigations such as the financing etc, basically admitting fault and killing the effects of any appeal.
4. Kenwright handled the Keane sale, AKA, did nothing and this alone would probably have saved any breach.

Basically the league screwed the club with making us put the stadium costs in our P&S, we signed a special agreement that then handcuffed us for the future, then the accountant in Moshiri forgot how to do accounting and literally could have just avoided the issue by moving the numbers to the right boxes, or Kenwright could have sold Keane. In short we legitimately spent less than 105m on player costs and abided by the spirit of the rules, but we accounted for the stadium costs wrong in an attempt to manipulate lenders, and then tried to obfuscate.
Well if that's what the commission found then why on earth would they have recommended 10 points.. if anything this looks like we'd have a case against the PL.
 
what’s the deal here mate?
Not much really just seen it on Twitter. Just my view that surely if you knew someone leaking things you'd put a stop to it, I assumed it was because he was unknown but if he is known I can't see why he hasn't been stopped by someone at the club, even though I appreciate him for info as a fan.
 
You just know what’s going to happen here.

We will work hard and find ourselves out of the relegation zone. Leeds, Burnley, Leicester etc will sue us. All of a sudden towards the end of the season some strange decisions will go against us in games and we will slowly fall back to within trouble.

Burnley, Luton, Sheff United will all strengthen in Jan. Everton won’t be able to spend. Someone will bid for Pickford and he will be off. Onana will go. Then all of a sudden relegation looks dead on again.

It will go down the final games of the season again and I think this time we are done. Boom, Everton relegated, Premier League made up. We move to Bramley Moore as a championship team, we go into administration and that’s your lot. We will simply become a new Wigan. It’s a shame but this is what the Premier League has wanted since the war in Ukraine broke out. I have said it again and again, nothing will convince me otherwise, especially after today.
 

Thanks for clarifying that. I was under the impression that the Commission was in fact going by that structured standard, hence the 10 points. If they in fact rejected it but then arbitrarily came up with 10 points anyway, then we would have a better chance of getting that reduced on appeal as an unfairly harsh punishment.

Had they actually been publicly committing to that standard, it would be hard to see how we could get it reduced on appeal after having already admitted guilt. Which was my argument earlier in the thread.

But it does now open the door a little to the appeals strategy of "well, we are guilty, but the punishment doesn't remotely fit the crime."

Which is how it'll basically work.

And of course we're guilty. No one's saying that. It's their 'opinion' that some of the accountancy doesn't hold weight but admit we haven't done anything to knowingly bend the rules for our favour
 
You just know what’s going to happen here.

We will work hard and find ourselves out of the relegation zone. Leeds, Burnley, Leicester etc will sue us. All of a sudden towards the end of the season some strange decisions will go against us in games and we will slowly fall back to within trouble.

Burnley, Luton, Sheff United will all strengthen in Jan. Everton won’t be able to spend. Someone will bid for Pickford and he will be off. Onana will go. Then all of a sudden relegation looks dead on again.

It will go down the final games of the season again and I think this time we are done. Boom, Everton relegated, Premier League made up. We move to Bramley Moore as a championship team, we go into administration and that’s your lot. We will simply become a new Wigan. It’s a shame but this is what the Premier League has wanted since the war in Ukraine broke out. I have said it again and again, nothing will convince me otherwise, especially after today.

you just know that you don’t know mate.
 

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